Siambr · Member of the Senedd · Register of record
Mark Hooper
Tenures
- Seventh Senedd Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg Plaid Cymru
Ministerial roles
- Deputy Minister for Transport Y Dirprwy Weinidog Trafnidiaeth
Contributions, by sitting day
107 contributions on record, newest first. Official verbatim record.
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Open this sitting on the stage
8. Welsh Labour Debate: The M4 around Newport en
Formally.
8. Welsh Labour Debate: The M4 around Newport cy
Lywydd, hoffwn ddechrau gyda rhywbeth rydyn ni i gyd yn cytuno arno: mae tagfeydd ar y M4 o amgylch Casnewydd yn broblem fawr i bobl, busnesau a chymunedau.
Official English translation
Llywydd, I'd like to begin with a point on which we are all agreed: congestion on the M4 around Newport is a major problem for people, businesses and communities.
8. Welsh Labour Debate: The M4 around Newport en
I welcome the opportunity to respond to this debate. And in the first instance, I want to directly reference a point that Jayne made, that the people of Newport aren't just data points in this, and they're really important to the work I'll be doing. You need to know that from the very start, as the first point that you made. Everyone in this Siambr recognises that congestion on the M4 around Newport affects people's daily lives, businesses and the wider economy of the south-east of Wales. The question is how we solve it. This is a question that Labour proved itself completely incapable of answering in over a quarter of a century. We have done what the last Labour Government didn't: we have set out a clear route towards a real, deliverable solution. We are being honest about both the scale of the challenge and the work needed to address it. That is why I am proud to move the Government amendment. Let us be clear about where we are today. There was previously a relief-road proposal for the M4 around Newport—one that had cost tens of millions to develop. Labour Ministers decided not to proceed with it. Labour Ministers subsequently removed protection for this route. What was called the black route is no longer a live proposition because of these decisions. Art, in your question, then, you talked about the black route and you were in the meeting when we talked about why this is no longer a viable solution. If the Reform spokesperson had bothered to turn up to the technical briefing I made available, he would be in no doubt about this either.
8. Welsh Labour Debate: The M4 around Newport en
The motion calls for a relief road. If opposition Members are serious about solving this issue, they need to answer some basic questions. What road? On what routes? Through what planning and consenting process? And how quickly could it be realistically delivered? No opposition—[Interruption.] I'm not taking—. You've tried a lot, Ken. No opposition Member has brought forward workable answers to these questions today, but they are exactly the questions a responsible Government must answer before committing to major infrastructure. That is why the announcement I made on 6 October was important. We took a clear strategic decision that road-based and engineering solutions must form part of the long-term answer to congestion on the M4 around Newport. There is no debate about whether roads should form part of the solution. We have accepted that they should. The task now is to identify the right solution and establish a credible route to delivery. That is why the centrepiece of our approach is an 18-month study of engineering, technical and appraisal work. This is not—[Interruption.] No, Mike. This is not another exercise in deciding whether there is a problem or whether action is needed. Those questions have already been answered. The purpose of this work is to identify the preferred road and engineering solution, assess its deliverability, understand its impacts and establish a realistic pathway to implementation. In short, it is about moving from recognising the problem to delivering the solution. The motion claims that our response is inadequate. What is inadequate is calling for a relief road without identifying which road is being proposed, whether it remains deliverable and how it would actually be taken forward. The motion also calls on the Government to rule out junction closures. I understand why this issue has generated debate, but I'd like to correct some of the commentary surrounding it, much of it coming from the opposition benches, including from Natasha's contribution earlier. The report published alongside my statement does not recommend the closure of the three junctions. It identifies options for further investigation, including the closure of junction 27 at High Cross and restrictions to east-facing slips at junctions 25 and 26. Those are not Government decisions, they are options for investigation. The purpose of the work now under way is to determine whether any form of junction restriction could contribute to a wider solution and, if so, under what circumstances. That means understanding the impacts on communities, businesses, local roads and road users, alongside any potential benefits for motorway performance and resilience. This is a question we've been asked a lot in this, about the evidence. One of the things that the report has done—. We've shared that report in full sight of everyone, including the public. We will maintain that level of transparency throughout this process and share it as we go. It means engagement with local authorities, businesses, communities and other stakeholders. And it means following the evidence. If the evidence shows an option will not deliver the outcomes required, it will not be taken forward. In short, we have not announced a programme of junction closures. What we have announced is further technical work to assess whether junction restrictions should form part of a wider solution to improve the operation and resilience of the M4 around Newport. Llywydd, the most important decision that I announced on 6 October was that a significant road and engineering intervention is required, and that we should begin the detailed work necessary to identify it. This is the fundamental shift this Government has made, but critically, while that long-term solution is developed, we are also acting now. Where previous Labour transport Ministers neglected it, we are investing in the resilience and reliability as a critical national asset. We are progressing maintenance and renewal work on key infrastructure that, to be frank, the previous Government could and should have undertaken, and it didn't. We are improving freight movement across the region, and we are supporting improvements to rail and bus connectivity—improvements that the previous Government championed, but which Labour has dropped completely from this motion. Including in our conversations with the UK Government, I am proud that Plaid Cymru is taking delivering the Burns stations seriously. And here too I'd argue that we've made more progress on this in five months than Labour managed in five years. These are practical actions that can deliver benefits now while the longer term engineering solution is developed. Success will not come—
8. Welsh Labour Debate: The M4 around Newport en
I'm not taking interventions, sorry, Stephen. Success will not come from a single measure in isolation. It will come from combining a major road and engineering intervention with improvements to the existing motorway and wider transport measures that support economic growth and improve connectivity. That is the balanced approach we have set out. We are looking to reduce peak traffic on the M4 around Newport by around 10 per cent. That would be an order of magnitude greater than anything Labour ever attempted in 27 years. That represents a clear ambition to make measurable progress whilst longer term solutions are developed. As the work progresses, people and businesses must have a genuine opportunity to contribute. The decisions we will take will affect communities across the region. People rightly expect to be informed, consulted and listened to, and I have made a commitment to do it. [Interruption.] I'm coming towards the end. Llywydd, the people and businesses who rely on the M4 have waited long enough for progress. We have made a clear decision that road and engineering interventions must form part of the long-term solution. This is a serious and credible approach, focused on delivery, rather than opportunism and slogans. Others may want to play politics here—[Laughter.]
8. Welsh Labour Debate: The M4 around Newport en
—I don't. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
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Open this sitting on the stage
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Diolch, Lywydd. Before I start, I'd just like to correct the record, if I may. In the business statement today, the Trefnydd mentioned that I'd made a written statement on the Network Rail changes in the north of the country. I haven't made one yet, but I will be making a statement. I'd just like the record to show that, if I may. I'll turn to my statement, Llywydd.
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Heddiw, rwy'n rhoi diweddariad am ba mor wydn yw rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth Cymru a'r gwaith sy'n cael ei wneud gan Lywodraeth Cymru, Trafnidiaeth Cymru a'n partneriaid i baratoi ar gyfer newid hinsawdd. Mae lleihau allyriadau carbon yn parhau i fod yn bwysig iawn i ni. Ond, yn ogystal â hynny, mae angen i ni baratoi ar gyfer effeithiau newid hinsawdd, sydd eisoes yn cael eu teimlo gan gymunedau ledled Cymru. Mae pobl yn disgwyl i wasanaethau trafnidiaeth fod ar gael pan fydd eu hangen. Dyna pam mae gwneud yn siŵr bod ein rhwydwaith yn ddibynadwy ac yn gallu ymdopi â digwyddiadau eithafol yn gyfrifoldeb pwysig iawn.
Official English translation
Today, I am providing an update on the resilience of Wales's transport network and the action that is being taken by the Welsh Government, Transport for Wales and our partners in order to prepare for a changing climate. Reducing carbon emissions remains very important to us. But, in addition to that, we need to prepare for the impacts of climate change, which are already being felt by communities across Wales. People rightly expect transport services to be there when they need them. That is why making sure that our network is reliable and ready to cope with extreme events is such an important responsibility.
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The weather conditions—[Interruption.] Diolch. I appreciate that. The weather conditions experienced across Wales this year have demonstrated how rapidly climate risks are changing. Wales has faced prolonged rainfall, drought, extreme heat and significant wildfire incidents. These are not simply environmental issues, they are transport issues too. These events have reinforced the need to adapt our transport networks so that they can continue to operate safely and reliably in a changing climate. Later this month, the First Minister will convene a wildfire summit, bringing together the public and private sectors and trade unions to identify ways to reduce the risk of wildfires and make sure we are better prepared to respond when they occur. Extreme heat and wildfires have placed exceptional pressure on infrastructure, services, passengers and staff. I recognise the work of transport organisations, emergency services, local authorities, trade unions and other partners in maintaining safe travel and protecting critical links. Through my engagement with operators and trade unions, I have heard first-hand the impact that extreme heat, wildfire risk and other severe weather events can have on front-line staff. Their safety and well-being must come first. We will work with Transport for Wales and trade unions to make sure the experience of front-line workers informs the practical measures we put in place. Transport employers must plan for these risks, working with trade unions to identify measures that protect staff and support the safe operation of services. The challenges experienced across the network this summer demonstrated why this preparation is increasingly important. On the rail network, high temperatures required some trains to be withdrawn because of cooling-system problems. Infrastructure operated close to—and, at times, beyond—historic design limits, leading to speed restrictions and additional failures. But this is not just a rail issue.
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Although the most visible impacts this summer were on rail, resilience matters across every mode. Extreme temperatures affected bus services, while flooding, landslips and heat are placing growing pressure on roads and active travel infrastructure. The same principle applies to the international gateways on which Wales depends for connectivity, trade and economic activity. Our major ferry ports—Holyhead, Fishguard and Pembroke Dock—provide vital international connections for people and goods. The prolonged disruption at Holyhead in December 2024 demonstrated how important our ports are to communities, businesses and the wider Welsh economy. It also showed how quickly disruption at one strategic gateway can have wider consequences. The Irish sea taskforce was established in response, to consider how a similar incident could be avoided and how partners should respond if one occurred at any Welsh port. I intend to publish a six-month update on its recommendations this autumn. Investment is also strengthening port resilience. Stena Line has committed significant investment in infrastructure at Holyhead and Fishguard to improve resilience, connectivity and future capacity. During my recent visit to Ireland, I met Minister Canney and key stakeholders to discuss resilience and co-operation across these vital routes. I have also asked officials to prepare a joint exercise based on the scenario of an unforeseen Welsh port closure. These lessons about preparedness, co-ordination and contingency planning apply to other strategic gateways. Cardiff Airport maintains emergency planning arrangements for incidents including severe weather and winter storms. Across aviation and ports, preparedness depends on clear responsibilities, tested plans, and effective communication. Strong partnerships are equally important across the wider network. My officials have established the Wales transport adaptation working group, bringing together infrastructure managers, operators and key stakeholders to support a co-ordinated approach. I have asked Transport for Wales to take immediate steps to improve resilience to weather conditions that can no longer be treated as exceptional. In the short term, this includes strengthening maintenance and inspection regimes, working to improve the reliability of train cooling systems and taking practical measures to reduce heat impacts on rolling stock. Enhanced weather monitoring, clearer escalation arrangements and pre-planned operational responses will improve preparedness and help reduce disruption during periods of severe weather. The aim is simple: to act earlier, reduce disruption and keep people moving safely. Alongside these immediate measures, Transport for Wales is developing a longer term adaptation programme. This will embed resilience in the way transport services are planned, operated and invested in for the future. Transport for Wales will work closely with Network Rail, which operates much of the rail infrastructure in Wales, so that plans cover the whole network. Priorities will include better climate-risk information, stronger drainage and earthworks, resilient rail and bus specifications, new monitoring technology, and nature-based solutions. The work will also support the wider cross-Government approach to climate adaptation and resilience that will be reflected through the forthcoming climate and nature action plan. On the strategic road network, lessons from recent storms, floods and heatwaves are shaping how we manage and maintain our roads, helping us become better prepared for future disruption. We're also working with local authorities to strengthen the wider highway network and rolling out resilience and adaptation training across all 22 authorities. As we move into winter, preparations reflect the growing risks of heavy rainfall, flooding, landslips, storms and coastal impacts, alongside projections for warmer, wetter winters and more intense rainfall. The central lesson is clear: resilience is not simply about maintaining assets; it is about enabling people to travel safely and reliably. We cannot limit ourselves to responding to today's incidents. We must prepare for the climate of the decades ahead while continuing to reduce emissions. Working with our partners, the Welsh Government is taking practical actions to build a transport system that can withstand future pressures and continue to serve the people of Wales. We cannot prevent every disruption caused by extreme weather, but we can be better prepared, more resilient and more responsive. We can identify risks earlier, act faster when disruption happens, and make sure our network is built and maintained to withstand the conditions we know are coming.
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Ni allwn atal pob tarfu o ganlyniad i dywydd eithafol, ond gallwn baratoi'n well, ymateb yn fwy effeithiol, a lleihau effaith ar fywydau pobl. Dyna'r gwaith yr ydym yn bwrw yn ei flaen nawr. Diolch.
Official English translation
We cannot prevent all disruption that is caused as a result of extreme weather, but we can prepare better, respond more effectively and reduce the impact on people's lives. That is the work we are now taking forward. Thank you.
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Diolch am y cwestiwn, Jason.
Official English translation
Thank you for that question, Jason.
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I'm really pleased that Reform is starting to recognise that the climate is starting to cause us real problems on our transport network, because, ultimately, what we're dealing with is the result of years of not addressing the climate issues carefully and properly. On railways, Transport for Wales I think have managed to see the last—. We had five heatwaves, as we all know, during the summer, and those caused a huge amount of pressure on the Transport for Wales operations. What we noticed is that each time those operations were affected, the resilience was better, because it's not just about dealing with the consequences of that particular action, it's about making sure you improve, and that they improve time and time again. On your point about their service delivery, they've just appeared top of the tree when it comes to services in the most recent period, and I think that bears testament to the work that they're doing, particularly on the core Valleys lines. Specific improvements related to air conditioning—I think that's a really good point. The air conditioning needs to work for passengers and needs to work for the people who are working on the trains as well. We're carrying on with the investment in the rolling stock to make sure we've got the trains that are suitable for the future. We've still got old stock on our railways. They're going to be taken off those railways as we move forward. But a point that I made a few weeks ago in the Siambr about us being responsible for all of our rail network would enable us to do these things quicker, which at the moment your party doesn't support. I too was next to the Minister for rural resilience talking about flooding earlier, and I think the issues—. He made reference to transport, and I was going to make reference to the work that he's got going on, because this is a Government that's working hand in glove across our portfolios to make sure we support each other. One of the last points in my statement was that we can't stop every major incident from happening when it comes to the weather. These weather conditions are—. The new normal is quite different to what the old past was and it's catching up with us very quickly. But the point about being able to adapt very quickly and prepare ourselves for these issues is critical. And also I think that one of the things that particularly passengers want is that they want to know when things are going to happen. Making sure that we keep people informed is of critical importance. I'm glad you mentioned ports, because I've spent a lot of time in ports over recent months, and I too recognise the importance that they play. When I went to Ireland, what I found striking was the importance that Holyhead played to the Irish economy and therefore to the European economy of getting goods into Wales and through to the rest of the UK. Holyhead is the second biggest roll-on, roll-off port in the country. What we've seen is that the investment that's been made since the December 2024 report is about to come online. My key concern, though, is that the weather conditions will be as dangerous and we could see as many problems this winter as we've seen in previous winters, which is the reason that I've set a piece of work off that will test what we would do in these circumstances, because the last time this happened, it was very, very close to Christmas and people had to make decisions without having been through this before. So, this is about being clear about whose responsibilities are there and also the responsibilities of UK Government in this. Only UK Government can redirect ships. That's not my responsibility. So, working with them in this is absolutely key. I look forward to outlining the Irish sea taskforce recommendations. There will be firm recommendations out of there, and I hope to get cross-Siambr support for those recommendations because they talk directly to the resilience issues that you brought up. The final point that I just want to make—. You talked about roads. This is one of the things that I think is of most concern, and this comes back to the point I made in my Menai and M4 contributions a week ago. We need to make sure we invest in our strategic road network, because it's been underinvested in in the past. Taking care of our core assets is the key way of making sure we can maintain the resilience we've got now. So, that's a central plank of the announcement I made last week and it's something I'm focused on going forward.
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Diolch am y cwestiwn, Vikki.
Official English translation
Thank you for the question, Vikki.
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And thank you for the general support for this statement as well. I think this is the work—. This summer has been a remarkable summer. Things have changed, and I think even most people who were previously sceptical of climate change have seen the impacts of it all around us. I think people are seeing it in their day-to-day lives. Sometimes late to the party, lots of people, but, ultimately, that's been important. I think your point about the whole-system approach is really important. We've got the regional transport funds as well that have started on their process at the moment. Part of that is about making sure that they build resilience into their funding bids. I'll just reflect on Elyn Stephens's point in the last debate about getting over the Bwlch to get into the hospitals, and these are real issues that are part of this whole resilience package. Now, the strategic road networks aren't in those such vulnerable positions as some of the roads that are in the control of the local authorities. So, there is partnership working between the local authorities. I referenced it in my statement, and that's been heightened by the fact that the need to be able to solve things, whether it's education or health, is really critical to this. So, I'm looking for much improved regional transport plans that look at the strategic impact of making sure our roads are accessible over winter and summer, because the strategic road network is impacted by heat waves as well as by winter. Winter seems more acute, especially as we're going into it now. I'm really pleased you mentioned bus. I did reference bus in the statement, but bus is the key way that people get across our country via public transport. It's used by many more people than the rail service is and it's often, at times, forgotten. Buses were affected in this heat wave this summer. There were bus services that were drawn from operation because they were too hot for the driver to operate and also for the passengers in there as well. And I think the lessons learned from this are actually about moving ahead. You've mentioned bus franchising. A part of that is about a bus renewal plan, so the new fleet we need, the fleets for the future, and we've got lots of those. You've seen them. If you're around our capital city, you will have seen electric buses that have got air conditioning. They work really well. And we've got other places around Wales that are still using diesel buses without air conditioning. So, there is a plan to move all buses into that. But there's also some simple stuff we can do. When we paint a roof of a bus white instead of black, it makes a real difference. The Taith Cymru coaches, which we're launching in two weeks' time, have all got white roofs. White roofs take about 4 degrees out of the temperature of the cab. Now, that cab is air conditioned, but the fact you can therefore make the whole system work better and the engines work better without having to cool the cab is really important. So, there's some really simple stuff we can do as well. I apologise if I didn't say enough about the passenger. I think the passenger is central to this and I mentioned it in my answer to Jason a few minutes ago as well. Part of this is about being clear about our communication. There will be things that we can't address. There will be services that will have to stop where it's unsafe, because safety is the critical thing. But I think one of the things that we're getting a lot better at is understanding the forecasts that come in, preparing for them and being able to inform customers. Because part of what we all, I think, want is an integrated transport system. So, it's all very well if you can catch the bus to the train station, but if the train's not running, what's the point of catching the bus? So, I think that integration of message is absolutely key. Your last point about joined-up thinking, and especially linking into other things that are going on—. The farmers who are doing some work that positively impacts the rail network underneath—I referenced the climate and nature action plan. That isn't my responsibility, it's a cross-Government responsibility. So, feeding into that can make a real difference, and a tangible difference to our rail and other transport infrastructure as well. So, it's a really good point. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
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Yn Gymraeg, Janet?
Official English translation
In Welsh, Janet?
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Diolch, Janet. I always welcome your contributions. I think that, in all seriousness, your real-life experience—. I remember when you and Tom were stuck and Tom—. So, these things do happen. I think that the interesting thing, for the purposes of this, is that we're talking about how we can manage better with issues of, particularly, extreme weather. But I think your points about the fact that, sometimes, other issues exacerbate some of those problems is worth noting into it as well. I think we do have your support for the devolution of rail, but you mentioned the point about—[Interruption.] We'll try. You mentioned the point about points failures, and these are Network Rail's points, in the main, especially the routes that you're taking. So, the responsibility for those railways is being managed elsewhere. Now, I'm not denigrating the fact that they're working hard to do some of these things, but we're not the priority in some of these changes. So, I think one of the things that this talks to is the fact that we want to take responsibility for us. And the improvement in the services on the core Valleys lines—when we've got the whole service; we've got the track, the train and everything else—is marked and it's been marked and it's improving month on month. I think that talks to what sort of rail system we could have in the future. I'm really pleased that you talked about how disruption affects the most vulnerable first, and I think that's, again, something that links back to the conversation with Vikki and with Jason about making sure that our communication is really clear, particularly to those people who may not be able to find that the journey—. It's already a challenge, the journey that we've got. And part of that, I think, talks to us about making sure that we communicate in a way that's most effective for the people who are taking the journey as well—that's really critical for it. I just think the last—. Just in terms of passengers requiring accurate information, I think that that is also something that—. I feel that this young guy who you were talking to who missed his job appointment as well, some of that is about—. And again, I'm linking it to how do we make sure that, particularly in extreme weather conditions, we get these things right so that communications are clear as we go through. The last point: at the start of this I made a commitment to make a statement on the north Wales main line changes, that was obviously a Network Rail decision to close that main line. The communication around that initially was really poor—we found out by accident rather than by design. But, because we found out early enough, we can get in there and make sure that we've got these bus replacement services that do their best to be able to pick up the slack. Now this isn't the way that you'd want to go and plan it, because everyone in the north of the country now must be dreading what's going to happen in January, including Members in this room as well, so I understand that. What I can do, as transport Minister, is make sure that, where we've got those rail replacement services, they run regularly, they're good services, they're also services that can hit the timetables that we were hitting before. So, hopefully, disruption will be kept to a minimum, because we've got a bit more time to plan for this than we should have had. But, ultimately, this was a decision that was made without our say-so, and it was made to us, not with us.
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Diolch. So, I think this is a choice—. There's no choice between decarbonisation and adaptation. I think these things need to run hand in hand. But for us to provide a solution that works for people, the public transport system must work. That's the reason I'm really keen to make sure bus franchising works and gets on and that we get that in the timetable that we've suggested, because that's about connecting people in the way they want to travel. The future: we've talked about, and I've talked about in this Siambr, the £14 billion rail investment. The future: we can make some real differences and real commitments to the rail industry. But, as it stands today, the differences we can make today for the public transport system are mainly about bus travel and making sure we connect those in the way that's most effective.
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Diolch, Gareth. I get the point, and I get the point you're making. And I think this—. I'll reference the contribution I made last week about the M4 and Menai, and about the fact that we were focusing on the motorway being an effective asset that we needed to make sure we invested in, because previous administrations hadn't invested in it as much. It's one of the key assets of our country; it needs to work. But, ultimately, we all need to recognise that, unless we do the work, then we're going to store up problems for the future. This is a problem that we're tackling. We're tackling it now. It's in budgets for delivery this year. So, I don't recognise the 'plan, plan, plan' point you were making at all. What I recognise is action, action, action.
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Diolch am y cwestiwn, Paul.
Official English translation
Thank you for the question, Paul.
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A really important point, I think, and often overlooked. I did reference in the statement earlier that active travel routes are a really important part of it. We've got new guidance coming out, on which I'm going to be making a statement in the Siambr in a few weeks, which I'd urge you to engage with. We've also got the regional transport fund; I referenced it earlier. Active travel is part of that regional transport fund. But, ultimately, this is about recognising that the same issues that affect our roads affect the pavements that run alongside them. And I think there are some things that we can do, and I think there's been—. I've had a lot of correspondence—probably the most correspondence I've had in this Siambr has been around pavement parking. This is about inconsiderate parking on our pavements causing damage to those pavements and making them less accessible. The other thing that does is it pushes the most vulnerable out into the road, so this is a piece of work that I'll be embarking on, over the term, whilst in office. Diolch, Paul.
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Diolch am y cwestiwn, Anna.
Official English translation
Thank you for the question, Anna.
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I really appreciate it, and I think it's an important point. There are communities who find navigating our transport system, whether it's active travel, whether it's using the public transport system, or anywhere else, more difficult than others. And they're often people who, historically—and this isn't a dig at the last administration here, but historically—in the way we've developed our transport system, have been ignored too often. I was particularly taken by Sam's point in the business statement question about how blind people access our public transport system. It's a really important point to make. I'm committed. This is one of the things I think we can make a real difference to. And the reason I think it's important is because, if we get it right first time, it will save us money because we won't have to go and adapt back next time, which is what we've found ourselves doing. It will make it more accessible for those communities of interest we need to serve, but it also makes it easier for everyone else. I think that's one of the things that we forget, that, if you make it easier for certain communities, it makes a massive difference across the piece. So, it's a really important concern and something that I'm very much on board with. Diolch, Anna.
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Open this sitting on the stage
10. Short Debate: The importance of port infrastructure and maritime traffic to the Welsh economy cy
Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r Aelod am godi'r ddadl am bwysigrwydd porthladdoedd a thrafnidiaeth forol i economi Cymru.
Official English translation
I'm grateful to the Member for raising the importance of port infrastructure and marine traffic to the Welsh economy.
10. Short Debate: The importance of port infrastructure and maritime traffic to the Welsh economy en
You're probably not going to realise how much I actually like ports, but you'll find out after this, because I've got quite a lot I want to say. I'm sure you'd like to go home, but there's a lot in ports. Wales is home to a strong and diverse ports and maritime sector, comprising businesses that consistently demonstrate resilience, innovation and adaptability. Their contribution is fundamental to our economic success, facilitating the movement of vital imports and exports, supporting key industries and providing rewarding careers for thousands of people across our coastal communities. The most recent recorded data from the British Ports Association suggests Welsh ports account for approximately 1.2 per cent of Welsh gross value added, about £560 million, and support almost 11,000 jobs. We recognise the immense value these businesses bring to Wales. While much of their work takes place behind the scenes, it is vital to our daily lives and to the smooth functioning of our economy. As a nation with an extensive coastline, deep water access and a strategic position between Ireland and key international shipping routes, Wales has long relied upon its ports to support trade, investment and economic growth. Today, that role is more important than ever. Perhaps the greatest opportunity for our ports is the transition to clean energy and the growth of offshore renewables. Wales offers many very attractive propositions to the offshore wind sector. For example, in Port Talbot, ABP are completing the essential design and engineering work needed to build one of the first floating offshore wind ports in the UK. This new development will help unlock an initial 4.5 GW of floating offshore wind projects in the Celtic sea, enough to power 6.5 million homes. Another example is Erebus, a proposed floating wind development off the Pembrokeshire coastline. Its significance is not only the turbines offshore, but what comes with them onshore, both in terms of supply chain opportunities and the infrastructure needed to support new offshore industries, such as fabrication, logistics, marine services and long-term maintenance work. In the north, the Awel y Môr offshore windfarm off the coast of the north of Wales is now moving towards construction, and a final investment decision. It will be developed by RWE on behalf of project partners for an area of sea bed to the west of the existing Gwynt y Môr offshore windfarm. Once completed, it will generate power equivalent to the needs of more than half of Wales's homes, as well as creating opportunities throughout its construction, operational and eventual decommissioning process. The Morlais tidal stream energy project manages an area of 35 sq km off the sea bed near Ynys Cybi on Anglesey. The scheme has the potential to generate up to 240 MW of low-carbon clean electricity, and provides further economic opportunities for operations and maintenance of our Welsh ports. The port of Mostyn, a privately owned and operated port in the north of Wales, has been leading the way for fixed offshore wind development, with around 240 people directly employed servicing the offshore wind sector. We will continue to support ports to maximise the opportunities off the coast of the north of Wales and in the Irish sea, at least 7.6 GW with Gwynt y Môr and Mona projects in Welsh seas. Our forthcoming national energy strategy will set out how Wales can secure more clean energy, increase Welsh ownership and retain more economic value within our communities and businesses. Renewable energy will be at the forefront of the national energy strategy, including innovative opportunities such as offshore wind in deeper waters, tidal stream and range, and significant stakeholder input has been collated through activities such as the renewable energy sector deal and offshore wind action plan, to which our major ports have contributed. Much of our offshore and marine renewable energy strategic infrastructure will be located in and around our ports. This will ensure that more of the value created from Wales's natural resources, infrastructure and clean energy transition is retained in Wales, supporting communities, workers and businesses and creating long-term public benefits around the port's hinterlands.
10. Short Debate: The importance of port infrastructure and maritime traffic to the Welsh economy en
Alongside supporting renewable energy generation, the maritime sector itself is undergoing significant transformation as it moves towards decarbonisation. Ports will play a crucial role in enabling the adoption of alternative fuels, supporting cleaner vessel technologies and developing the infrastructure required for low-carbon shipping, and supporting the decarbonisation of transport. This transition presents both challenges and opportunities, creating the potential for innovation, investment and new high-skilled employment across Wales. Maritime traffic remains fundamental to Wales's trading relationships, particularly with Ireland, one of our most important trading partners. The port of Holyhead is—I repeat my line from earlier—the second busiest roll-on, roll-off ferry port in the UK and it is a vital gateway into Wales. In recognition of this, a £150 million scheme is in place to secure the port's long-term future through the refurbishment of its essential and historic breakwater. Holyhead and our other major west coast ferry ports, Fishguard and Pembroke Dock, provide vital international connectivity for goods and people. Despite the adverse impacts of Brexit on the volume of freight using the UK's land bridge between Ireland and the rest of the EU, these ports remain essential to the UK and Irish logistics sector. The economic importance of these Irish sea links were highlighted in December 2024, with the prolonged disruption at Holyhead having a significant impact on businesses on both sides of the water. In response to this, the Irish sea taskforce was created to examine what could be done to avoid a repeat scenario and respond effectively if similar events ever happened again at any Welsh port. I intend to publish a six-month update to the Irish sea taskforce recommendations this autumn. Following this and other similar incidents, the Holyhead Port Authority, Stena Line, has committed to a multi-million pound port infrastructure investment in the berths to strengthen the long-term resilience of this port and modernise its infrastructure for the future. Separately, Stena Line has invested a further £20 million into a new linkspan at Fishguard port, which will strengthen future resilience and connectivity and enhance opportunities for them to increase their roll-on, roll-off traffic and expand their cruise ship offering at the port. Cruise tourism plays a significant role in our maritime economy and, for many visitors, our ports provide their first welcome to Wales. Cruise Wales is a partnership between Welsh Government, our six cruise ports, Welsh tourist destinations and many outside stakeholders. We market six cruise ports in Wales, which are Cardiff, Swansea, Pembroke, Milford Haven, Fishguard and Holyhead. Cruise Wales is an established global brand attracting new cruise lines to Wales. Our ports continue to support a thriving cruise sector. In 2026, 88 cruise calls are scheduled at Welsh ports, bringing over 73,500 passengers and 35,000 crew. This is expected to generate circa £7.6 million in visitor spending, providing a valuable boost to local economies across Wales. Our ports are not simply points of arrival and departure. They are centres of economic activity that support investment, innovation and employment across Wales. Welsh ports have the potential to attract significant investment, stimulate innovation, strengthen strategic industries and create high-quality employment opportunities across Wales. Another example of how important port infrastructure is to our economy is the recently agreed long-term lease and commercial agreement between Associated British Ports and Valero at the port of Cardiff, securing critical supply and storage solutions for liquid fuels across south Wales. The agreement underpins the ongoing operation of Valero's 12-acre liquid fuels terminal at Roath Dock, the largest such facility at the port of Cardiff, and represents a commitment to the future of the port and the Wales energy supply chain. The deal safeguards skilled jobs on site and supports the reliable supply of fuel for households, businesses, airports and commercial fleets across the south of the country. It also takes thousands of HGVs off the road network by using coastal shipping routes to link Cardiff to Valero's Pembroke refinery at Milford Haven, the UK's leading energy port.
10. Short Debate: The importance of port infrastructure and maritime traffic to the Welsh economy en
Since taking office—I almost said 'leaving office' then; that would have been good. [Laughter.] Since taking office, I have visited—[Interruption.] Don't start. [Laughter.] I have visited many of our ports to see first-hand the essential role they play in supporting trade, industry and local communities. Whether handling passengers, facilitating freight movements, supporting steel production, construction projects, agriculture or manufacturing, our ports form an integral part of the supply chains that underpin the Welsh economy. It's been fascinating to observe how modern ports operate with such precision, co-ordinating the movement of vessels, cargo and people in a highly complex movement. I was on the bridge of a ferry that docked in Rosslare and I was able to witness the captain be able to berth the ship within six inches of its desired place. This is incredible precision and incredible skill. Welsh ports have a rich sense of history—sorry, I'm going to go to the history now, I've got to go to it—have a rich sense of history and a social and cultural connection to their local communities and surrounding hinterland. I had the pleasure of learning about the connection ports have to their communities during my visit to Fishguard and Rosslare, where they were celebrating the first sea crossing from Fishguard to Rosslare that took place on 30 August 1906. This year marks the hundred and twentieth anniversary of this vital link between Ireland and Wales, connecting generations of families, holidaymakers, businesses and communities on both sides of the Irish sea. It was in 1906 that a newly built harbour and railway opened in Abergwaun, which also brought transatlantic liners to the port, and is still from where Stena Line runs its passenger service to Rosslare. In 1807, Captain John Macgregor Skinner astonished mariners by successfully bringing his ship into Holyhead harbour during an exceptionally severe gale. Little of the current harbour infrastructure, including the sheltering breakwater, existed back then. Captain Skinner had to navigate rough waters and pass numerous rocks and small islands. This continues today, as every operation is carefully managed to ensure goods and services move safely, efficiently and on time, maximising economic value and supporting businesses across Wales and beyond. I recently toured Rosslare port's impressive operations, which are completely different to those that were in place 126 years ago. Rosslare Europort is today a key infrastructure hub for transportation from Ireland to Europe and the UK. Post Brexit, Rosslare has experienced significant growth, particularly in freight traffic and direct ferry services to Europe. Weekly sailings to Europe increased more than sixfold. Welsh ports were not so fortunate. Holyhead and Fishguard ports saw a 30 per cent drop in traffic in 2021, according to their operator, Stena Line. When in Ireland, I met with one of Ireland's leading temperature-controlled logistics companies to better understand their operations and experiences of using the Irish sea crossing between Dublin and Holyhead. We discussed the location of Welsh truck stops for driver welfare across the A55 corridor and how we could best support drivers to use alternative routes across Wales should their usual route not be open. This was followed by a meeting with my counterpart in the Irish Government, Seán Canney. Our discussions focused on strengthening resilience, deepening co-operation, and building the strong relationships necessary to support this vital maritime corridor. These partnerships ensure that, when challenges arise, we can engage rapidly and work collaboratively to deliver effective solutions. I've also—and this talks directly to the point about resilience—asked officials to prepare an internal resilience exercise over the coming months, with key stakeholders on both sides of the Irish sea, focusing on scenario planning in the event of an unforeseen Welsh port closure. The contribution made by Welsh ports in maritime traffic cannot be overstated. They enable trade, support critical supply chains, attract investment, strengthen energy security, create skilled employment, and connect Wales with key international markets. They are essential to our economic prosperity today and will be equally important in helping us to achieve our ambitions for a greener and more resilient economy in the future. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
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Open this sitting on the stage
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Dirprwy Lywydd, heddiw hoffwn nodi’r camau nesaf ar gyfer croesfannau'r Fenai a’r M4 o amgylch Casnewydd. Rydym wedi cytuno ar y ffordd ymlaen.
Official English translation
Dirprwy Lywydd, today I would like to set out the next steps for the Menai crossings and the M4 around Newport. We have agreed a way forward.
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The challenges on these routes are not new. They affect communities, businesses and travellers every day. The reviews we commissioned at the start of the summer were not about repeating decades of work explaining the problems, they were intended to identify a practical way forward. They have given us a clear direction. Today I am announcing action to develop a third Menai crossing and action to develop roads-based and engineering solutions for the M4 around Newport, alongside a programme of improvements that will help people and businesses while that work progresses. Dirprwy Lywydd, people on Ynys Môn and across the north of our country know how disruptive it can be when one of the Menai crossings is restricted or closed. The review confirms that resilience remains the key challenge. That is why this Government will immediately recommence development work for a third Menai crossing. This will include design development, environmental assessment, business case preparation and the statutory processes needed to establish a deliverable scheme. People have waited a long time for certainty about the future of the crossings. Today we are providing that direction. A third crossing remains the most effective option for improving resilience and providing additional capacity across the Menai strait. But major infrastructure cannot be delivered simply by announcing it. The necessary development work must be undertaken if we are to move from aspiration to a proposal that, ultimately, can be developed. Alongside this work, we will continue investing in the infrastructure that we already have. We will maintain and operate both existing crossings to keep them safe and reliable. We will continue investment in targeted resilience measures on Britannia bridge, including wind deflectors, variable speed limits and other operational improvements designed to reduce disruption and keep traffic moving during challenging conditions. These measures will not replace the need for a third crossing. They will help improve resilience while development work on the third crossing progresses. The review also examined three-lane tidal flow operation on Britannia bridge. The evidence identified significant safety and operational concerns and does not support taking this option forward. Dirprwy Lywydd, turning now to the M4 around Newport: this is one of the most important transport corridors in Wales. Every day, thousands of people and businesses rely on this route to get to work, move goods and connect with customers, communities and ports across Wales. Yet, congestion continues to cause unreliable journeys and disruption that can quickly spread across the wider network. The review is clear that doing nothing is not an option. It also shows there is no single short-term intervention capable of solving the problem on its own. That is why this Welsh Government will now begin an 18-month programme of work to develop roads-based and engineering solutions for the M4 around Newport. This programme will consider a range of roads-based and engineering interventions and will identify a preferred option capable of providing a long-term response to the challenges on this route.
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Many people will understandably say that this issue has been debated for decades. They are right. But this work is not about revisiting old arguments. It is about developing options against current policy, environmental requirements, planning considerations and future travel demands, so that decisions can be taken on the basis of robust evidence and a clear understanding of what can realistically be delivered. Our objective is straightforward: we need a solution that is affordable, deliverable and capable of attracting the support and investment needed to make it happen. Without undertaking this work, there can be no credible pathway towards delivering future roads-based and engineering solutions. But while this work progresses, we cannot simply wait. That is why we are also announcing a programme of improvements over the next five years. We will invest in the maintenance and renewal of the existing motorway and strategic road network. Over many years, Governments have often faced a choice between accepting disruption now or delaying important work until later. Understandably, there has often been a desire to minimise disruption in the short term, but that can make long-term challenges harder to address. Key infrastructure now requires significant renewal and maintenance work. I want to be honest: there will be periods of disruption while this work takes place. Nobody wants roadworks. Nobody enjoys delays. But continuing to defer this work will only lead to greater disruption and cost in the future. This Government is choosing to deal with that problem now. We will also implement a five-year delivery plan, focused on practical improvements that people will start to see over the next two to three years, with further benefits building over time. This will include improvements to the way the motorway is operated and managed, including targeted improvements to roads and junctions, including potential closures, in and around Newport to improve traffic flow and resilience. The review found that measures such as these offer some of the quickest opportunities to improve traffic flow and resilience in the M4. But we also recognise that changes affecting the motorway can have consequences for local roads. We will therefore work closely with Newport City Council, local communities and Members to develop these interventions so that the local impacts are properly considered alongside the benefits to the M4. At the same time, we will introduce measures to improve freight resilience by making better use of alternative routes such as the A465. This will maximise the investment made in the A465, supporting the provision of facilities that HGV drivers deserve, and at the same time alleviating pressure on the M4. We will also continue investing in public transport, making it easier for more people to choose rail and bus services for everyday journeys between Newport and Cardiff, across the wider M4 corridor, and onwards into the rest of Wales and into England. The UK Government has committed to funding the rail stations recommended by the South East Wales Transport Commission. Last week I attended the joint UK-Welsh Government Wales rail board to discuss how we can accelerate delivery. I am pleased that Network Rail have committed to work collaboratively with Transport for Wales to draw on the expertise of both organisations, and TfW will take a direct role in constructing the stations. We are setting up a new network south-east Wales board to oversee delivery. I have asked the team to prioritise delivery of the Cardiff parkway and Magor and Undy stations, so that communities can begin to benefit from these investments as soon as possible. We will also seek to improve access to Severn Tunnel Junction railway station and support improvements to bus connectivity between Newport and Cardiff, giving real options for travellers. Dirprwy Lywydd, for too long, people and businesses have seen congestion around Newport become an accepted part of everyday life. This Government is choosing to act. The programme we are taking forward could reduce peak-hour traffic by about one in 10 vehicles. On a motorway that is already operating at or above capacity at the busiest times, that matters. It is a meaningful improvement over doing nothing and simply accepting increasing congestion on the network. But what matters is what these improvements mean in practice for people using the network every day. It means better travel choices through improved rail and bus services. It means the network is better able to cope when incidents occur, reducing the risk of small problems becoming major disruption. These are practical improvements that people should begin to notice in their everyday lives over the coming years. Dirprwy Lywydd, people want action, not endless discussion. They want government to deal with today's challenges while properly planning for the future. That is exactly what we are doing. At the Menai strait, we are getting on with the work needed to develop a third crossing whilst managing resilience now. Around Newport, we are developing long-term road space and engineering solutions for the M4 whilst delivering practical improvements over the next five years. These are major transport challenges that have built up over many years; they will not be resolved overnight. But, today, we are providing a clear direction, taking practical actions now and developing the longer-term solutions needed for the future.
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Ddirprwy Lywydd, rydym yn gweithredu nawr. Rydym yn cyflawni gwelliannau dros y bum mlynedd nesaf ac yn datblygu atebion ar gyfer ein dyfodol. Diolch yn fawr.
Official English translation
Dirprwy Lywydd, we are taking action now. We are delivering improvements over the next five years and developing solutions for the future. Thank you.
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Thank you for the question. Before I answer, I just want to thank those Members who turned up for the briefing with officials this morning, and also subsequent conversations in this regard. It was a shame that Members from Reform chose not to undertake those conversations. There were specific conversations that were not entered into, and that was a real shame, because that would have given them the chance to have understood some of the detail behind this more clearly. In answer to the questions on Menai, I don't think the Member, frankly, understands the process you need to go through to build. This is a significant piece of engineering. It is appropriate that we do it in the phases that we say we are. To be clear, this Government is committed to delivering a third crossing across the Menai. There are no ifs, no buts. That is absolutely clear. What you have to do to do that is to take stages. Now, the Member, and all of this group around here, just seem to think that you can click a finger and things happen. Let's get into the real world. The real world is that it takes real work to get these things done. The interesting thing is, when I was speaking to civil servants earlier prior to this, I was saying I was looking forward to this debate, because I do look forward to these debates. Do you know what they were saying? They're looking forward to getting stuck in to doing the work. That's what they're waiting for, and that's what's going to happen. What's happened for too long is this body politic has failed to deliver. If we have conversations that are in the style that we've had today, we'll continue to do that. But the rest of the Siambr, hopefully, will focus on getting things done. Because if you're just going to backbite on that, it helps nobody, frankly. Turning to the M4, I think this is a real misunderstanding as well of what a 10 per cent change will do on the M4 with the plan of action that we've put together. Ten per cent—. And I'm sure that Members opposite me as well are probably thinking, 'I wish we'd done some more of this 10 per cent.' But, over the past 27 years, there's been very limited change on the M4. This Government is committing itself, over the next five years, to making an actual difference to people. And 3 per cent here and 1 per cent there makes a real difference. This is about a strategic suite of projects that need to be deployed together. These are the ways that we make the difference to the M4. And it's not straightforward. There is no silver bullet. If there was, we'd talk about it. You talk about the black route as if it's deliverable. That went when it was cancelled. The protected route status went when it was cancelled. So, we're talking about decades of work to even get that off the ground. So, to suggest to the people outside that you can deliver it in an instant is disingenuous—and I'm being kind in saying that. In terms of the A465—. There are a lot of questions to get through, I will try and be—. But, in terms of the A465, unlike you I've actually spoken to hauliers, who see this as a realistic option. But the haulage companies are looking for facilities, because, unlike some parts of Europe where they actually invest in facilities for drivers—. Drivers are professional. Across the UK, we have very, very poor facilities. This Government is going to make a difference to that, and we've had support from across the industry to say that they want to see those facilities. That will direct people across the piece, and that's including people from Ireland as well as haulage companies from the UK. Rail adding choice and taking people off the motorway—. One of the things about adding choice using rail is exactly what you just said, it takes people—. So, I may be taking a car; I can now use the rail. That frees up space on the motorway for those people who need to use the motorway in the way that you described. It's a practical way of making a difference. The sad thing is that the Burns review—. I can just hear muttering behind me. Do you want to make an intervention or not?
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Go on then.
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Okay, you can't. You can't.
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You can't really ask a question.
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Making room for others who are using that road system by putting them on the railways is an important thing. The Burns review reported six and a half, almost seven years ago. I think the disappointment is that nothing's happened in that time. But what has been good—. And listening to the Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution earlier, he described the positive conversations we've been having with UK Government. That's the same for this. We've had a continued commitment from the UK Government to the £14 billion. The Prime Minister has made it. The Secretary of State has made it. The point now is to get that transferred in, in this current spending review, so we can start to move on those stations. We've identified the ones we want to move quickly on, and we will do. I'm just going to—. The point about ideology is, frankly, ludicrous, ultimately. All we've heard is 'ideology'. The suggestion that we're taking these things, that we're not dealing with cars, helping people to move faster on the motorway through cars, which is exactly what this statement is, which is exactly what we're talking about now, is frankly ludicrous. We need to move together as a body politic and start delivering these things and stop this calling for—. It's just—. We're not dealing with the issues. We're not dealing with the issues at hand.
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Diolch am y cwestiynau, Vikki.
Official English translation
Thank you for the questions, Vikki.
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I really appreciate the question, and I think, despite the disappointment that was expressed in that statement, there were a lot of things that you agreed with, so I welcome that. I'll deal with junction closures at the end, if I may. The resilience studies, in the first instance, that you asked about, when they're ready to be published, I'll be publishing them. They'll be published in full. I think there's good work that's being undertaken, and it does feed into the wider issues across Wales. One thing I've been really committed to is that there were two issues of strategic importance when I came into office: one was around Menai, and one was around the M4. So, I focused very much on those, and asked for the resources to be put into that thinking, in the first instance, to make sure we got those right. In terms of 18 months, 18 months is actually a relatively fast time period to get the sort of work that we want to do done, but whilst those 18 months are happening, this Government isn't standing still. We've designed and put together a package, a full range of interventions, that need to be seen as a whole, not just my interventions in and of themselves. Some of them will be relatively easy. It will be relatively easy to direct people along the A465. Some of them are trickier. Some of them will require—. Like you said, the UK Government committed the £14 billion, it needs to show us the money on that. That's the next stage of this now, so that the work can be done. I referenced in my statement that Transport for Wales would be working on developing those stations. That's a massive change of heart from UK Government that shows the positive relationship we've had with the Department for Transport and with Network Rail, that they see what Transport for Wales have done on the core Valleys lines and want to be able to utilise that same workforce. Remember that's a Welsh workforce developing, so the economy benefits from that work. You asked a specific question, whether or not I commit to working with the communities of Newport and wider with regard to publishing the data around junction closures. The answer is a very emphatic 'yes' on that. One of the things that we need to do is to make sure that people don't feel like there are things being done to them. We want to work with Newport City Council and the other councils that also interact with these junctions as well. So, I give my commitment and the commitment of the teams who are working on this to do that. That's probably the most important thing about this. We're trying to make sure that this process has been transparent. That's the reason we're publishing the report that was issued today. You will all have had it in your inboxes. This isn't something that's being held behind closed doors. We didn't put a Lord's name on it. We've taken responsibility ourselves to move this thing forward. So, I'm really keen to continue this engagement to make sure that we get it right.
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Diolch am y cwestiynau, Natasha.
Official English translation
Thank you for the questions, Natasha.
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And, again, thank you for the constructive way you approached the conversation this morning. I do appreciate it. And I think the frankness—. I didn't expect agreements as you walked into the Siambr today to talk about this, but I think what we got was a situation of understanding some of the issues that we're addressing. I think, when we talk about junction closures, the thing that I'm really clear about is that it's something where I do recognise the concerns that are out there, and this is something that is very, very important that we get right. So, as I said in my answer to Vikki just a few minutes ago, I'm committed to engaging not just with Newport City Council and the surrounding councils, but with traders and local communities to make sure we understand how things can be mitigated and how things can work better as well. The three junctions you're talking about, one of them is a full closure, whereas the other ones will see changes that are less severe. So, it's about understanding the impacts of each one, which will be quite different. The other thing I think is important to note is that we talk about this as if the intra-Newport system is working well, and, frankly, it isn't. Whereas I've got responsibility for the strategic road network, this is about working with Newport City Council, together, and the corporate joint committee as well, to make sure that we're delivering across the piece to improve the whole thing. The M4 is part of the system that makes Newport work, or not at the moment, and we've got to improve that. It's a youthful city, and people are expecting a modern city with modern public transport facilities. But at the moment, today, it's the most car-dependent city in Wales. So, we've got to do things to give people the choice. And going back to the point I made earlier, that choice needs to be very real and needs to be effective. On the A465, we've had discussions with hauliers; we'll have more discussions with hauliers. But the initial points were to be welcomed, particularly about the routes that we're talking about from Fishguard into the midlands. It's a perfect route for that, but currently, it's not being chosen as the route of choice, and part of that is about providing the facilities. At the moment, we have freight drivers who are having to park in car parks and lay-bys, and it's wholly inappropriate. This is something that we can make a definite difference on and can attract drivers onto that route again. And again, going back to every time we take some of that traffic off the M4, it frees up space for people who have no choice but to use the M4. Tunnel widening was one of the points that was considered in this review. I would imagine that it'll be considered within the 18-month review as well, with more detail. But at this point in time, it was considered it wasn't something where we had a route to take forward at the moment. The timescales associated with the disruption are something like 12 years before it gets finished. So, it's something that we'll look at in more detail. And on that point, I'd encourage Members from across the piece to engage in that piece of work, to make sure that they find out what's going on, and I'll do my best to make sure that Members are appraised of it, as we go through. In terms of the Menai and when it happens, there is a process that you need to go through to be able to get a bridge to start. We're making a commitment that we want this bridge to be built. I think I've made that clear. That process starts today. That process then goes through—. There are a number of stages to it. What I'll be doing is updating this Siambr with written statements to talk about how that progress happens. The major work on a bridge build happens in the latter end of that, after all the plans have been approved, and all the environmental regulations, et cetera, have been agreed to. So, you'll see the actual spades in the ground, but the real work, and a lot of the work, will start now. That work starts now. So, we're looking at somewhere between eight and 10 years for that bridge to be finished and to be opened. That's a realistic timetable. And as I hope Members will understand, I'd rather deal with realism, rather than deal with things that won't happen, which brings me to the black route. This is a project now—. There is no deliverable opportunity for the black route. So, I would encourage the Members opposite, and other Members in the Siambr, just to think about what we can do to make practical improvements today. Because my concern is—and I've said this before—the body politic has let people down in Newport, and outside, by not solving these issues. So, there are lots of things you agree with, and I'm glad for that support.
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Diolch am y cwestiwn, Mair.
Official English translation
Thank you for the question, Mair.
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I've referenced it before, so I'll try and be brief. There are a number of steps that need to be taken prior to you even getting to a design stage, and these are the steps that we're taking now. So, although there's been a lot of work previously there and the route is protected—and that's probably one of the things that can make this a lot easier to deal with than others—we still need to go through the process of consenting and environmental work to make sure that works. But you also made the point that it's as important that we keep these current bridges working effectively, and that's something here we've seen an improvement in recent months. We still want to invest, especially on the Britannia bridge, with things like wind deflectors, which make a massive difference, especially during the weather that we're expecting to come our way over the winter. But this is practical work to get to the position where we can start to get to the point of appointing contractors and getting the bridge built.
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Thank you for the question. I think the Member is jumping one step ahead, but it's an important question to start addressing, and it is front of our mind as well. You asked whether it's a credible plan. That's why we're making the steps today, so that people can understand that this is a credible plan. We are committed to the third Menai crossing, so the plan will be something that is very deliverable. When it comes to financing it, this is part of the work that we would need to do. The Member makes a good point that the Menai strait is a link between us and Europe, through Holyhead. It's the second-biggest roll-on, roll-off ferry terminal in the country, so the benefit of that is really important. The other infrastructure projects that are happening on the island equally need a crossing that's going to be sustainable. So, discussions with the UK Government will have to occur with this. There are ways of being able to fund this. The plans are already starting to be put into place, but I'll be coming back with future plans as this work progresses.
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Thank you for the question, Jayne. I just want to agree with you on the point that people in Newport aren't to blame for the problems that we've got here. What is to blame is, I think, a body politic failure to be able to resolve some of these issues that we're trying to address now. All I'd say is that we need to be thinking about these things in the round. This work isn't just one piece of work that makes the difference. So, alongside any junction closures will be improvements in public transport and improvements in the flow of roads that go between those junctions, which should make life easier in many ways. I've made the commitment before, and I'm going to make it again to you, and I made it to you earlier on when we met: I'm committed to work closely with everybody who's going to be engaged in this. I'm there to listen and to hear. I did a lot of listening today. It wasn't all a one-way street, and I intend to carry on that process.
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Can I help the Member with the second part of that question? The 10 per cent improvement was in 2042 expected traffic volumes. So, it's a 10 per cent improvement on them, which has built some of those increases before. So, it does make a valid and important difference. Is it enough? I don't think it is, which is the reason we've got this 18-month piece of work as well to look at other longer term solutions alongside this. But the point is we're not going to stop. You talked about disruption, and I think this is a really important point, so thank you for raising it. For too long, the M4 and the rest of our strategic road network hasn't been maintained in the manner that it should have been. Maintaining a network is like maintaining a boiler at home. It needs to be serviced. If you don't service it when it does work, the problems manifest. We want to make sure that we grasp that and deal with these issues. Because what I don't want is for us to have a situation where the M4 is closed for much longer because we haven't dealt with the issues at hand. It's an important thing that we do. It's also a serious thing that we do. I'm hopeful that we get broad support so that we solve and maintain our networks as we should. It's one of our biggest assets on our balance sheet.
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Diolch, Pred. Thank you for those questions. I think you're right: the issues aren't new. This is something that's been around for a long time, and that doesn't mean that they're easy. Probably the reason why these issues have never been addressed is because of their complexity. Will this package of measures that we talked about in the five-year plan actually solve the problem? I don't think they will, but they'll go a long way towards it, which is the reason we've got this 18-month piece of work to run alongside it. But we're not standing still. We're making sure that some activities go alongside it. Your point about sequencing is the next stage. I think this statement today, and the conversations we're having today, are about setting an intent, a strategic intent, from this Government. The programme activity now to say what comes first and what comes next is a really important part of it. The assurance that I give you and other Members who represent the area is that my engagement with Newport and those communities that are affected will be central to making sure that we get these things right, and that will be a deep and meaningful engagement.
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Thank you for the question, Art, and thank you for your engagement earlier in this session—for the questions you raised then and for the questions you've raised now. I think I've made myself clear in terms of my engagement with local residents. I make that same commitment to you and those people whom you're talking about and talking to. The point about challenging economic conditions is one of those things—that the road network around Newport and the M4 currently doesn't help businesses. We seem to be thinking that the position today is a good position, but it isn't. This is about trying to resolve that. Getting a 10 per cent improvement on the motorway, as well as looking at longer term solutions, is a practical improvement to improve the economy of not just the area of Newport, but further along. That doesn't get away from my commitment to working closely with those communities to help them to get it right. Diolch yn fawr.
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6. Reform UK Debate: Default 20 mph speed limit en
Yes, I move.
6. Reform UK Debate: Default 20 mph speed limit cy
Lywydd, rydw i'n ddiolchgar am y cyfle i ymateb i'r pwyntiau a godwyd gan Aelodau y prynhawn yma. Gadewch imi ddechrau drwy ddweud nad yw diogelwch ar y ffyrdd yn fater pleidiol i sgorio pwyntiau gwleidyddol arno. Mae pob marwolaeth ar y ffyrdd yn drasiedi. Gall pob anaf difrifol newid bywyd am byth, gan effeithio nid yn unig ar yr unigolyn, ond hefyd ar y teulu, ffrindiau a'r gymuned.
Official English translation
Llywydd, I'm grateful for the opportunity to respond to the points raised by Members this afternoon. Let me start by saying that road safety is not a political issue to score political points with. Every road death is a tragedy. Every serious injury can change people's lives forever, impacting not only the individual, but also the family, friends and the whole community.
6. Reform UK Debate: Default 20 mph speed limit en
Firstly, just to set the tone, I wrote to all the business managers here this morning, and I copied the Llywydd in, to make sure that we were dealing with facts, so that we had a factual representation. And I thank you, Vikki, for pointing to that in your contribution a few minutes ago. I was really disappointed early on to hear the 91 being repeated here. Let's just be clear that that isn't related to 91 deaths on 20 mph or 30 mph roads; that's across the piece. So, if we're going to talk about something that's related to 20 mph and 30 mph, like Vikki, I would like that to be explained when Jason wraps up. The other thing I'd like to say is that the motion before us from Reform didn't make any of the caveats that have been referenced in the contributions from behind me, some of which have been worth while. We were clearly concerned, when we were in opposition in the last Senedd, to make sure that Labour, in time, dealt with this proposal in a different way, and I think even the Labour benches would probably agree with that position now anyway. But it does concern me that we're continually going back over this old ground without dealing with the facts in front of us. This Government is absolutely committed to reducing the number of people killed and seriously injured on Welsh roads. The responsibility for road safety is shared between all those who use the roads, those who design, regulate, manage and operate the transport system, and those who enforce its rules. We all have a part to play. This Government is clear that the 20 mph speed limit in areas where pedestrians and cyclists mix with motorised vehicles is fundamentally the right policy. The evidence so far points absolutely in the right direction. There are many fewer collisions and fewer people injured on these roads now. This supports the aim we should all share of no family having to grieve a loved one because of an avoidable tragedy. It is important that this debate is grounded in evidence rather than assertion. Much has been said about the impact of 20 mph over the last three years, but the laws of physics are clear, and Gwyn referenced this earlier—I'm just building on that—a small increase in speed creates a much larger increase in collision energy. This means a car travelling at 30 mph carries 2.25 times more kinetic energy than the same car travelling at 20 mph. A vehicle at 30 mph needs almost twice the distance to stop as a vehicle at 20 mph. Driver reaction time increases from about 6m to 9m when comparing the two, meaning there is less time to perceive hazards. That is why, at 20 mph, collisions are more likely to be avoidable, and if they occur, they are considerably more survivable than collisions at 30 mph. It is true that 91 people were killed in collisions in Wales in 2025, and one thing I'm really disappointed about in this debate is when we've talked about people's lives lost, I've heard laughter and derision from the benches behind me. This is a serious matter, and we hear this again and again and again. That's even more people than in 2024, but five fewer than the last calendar year before the introduction of the 20 mph default speed limit. Despite 84 and 91 fatalities in 2024 and 2025 respectively, there were only 19 fatalities on 20 mph roads. That is 19 too many, let's be clear, but that's a big reduction. The number of casualties on 20 mph and 30 mph combined is 23 per cent lower than in 2022, before the speed limit came into force. Road casualty numbers fluctuate from year to year. It has always been acknowledged that this will take several years of monitoring and evaluation before firm conclusions can be drawn. That is the responsible position, but, equally, it is not accurate to suggest that the evidence demonstrates the policy is, and I use quotes, 'clearly not working'. The published data simply does not support that conclusion. The same applies when looking at speeds and journey times. Transport for Wales has undertaken extensive monitoring on behalf of the Welsh Government. That monitoring has shown reductions in average vehicle speeds on roads affected by the policy. It has also shown that the impact on journey times is measured in seconds for many journeys, with journey times actually becoming more reliable on 45 of the 60 roads monitored. Some drivers may experience very slightly longer journey times, and I understand that frustration, but it is important that we deal with facts. We've heard repeated claims that the policy cost Wales £9 billion. That is not what the regulatory impact assessment says. The regulatory impact assessment applied standard UK transport appraisal methodology, which monetised changes in journey times. While this provides a useful measure of travel time impacts, it does not fully reflect the wider purpose of the policy. Adopting a broader conception of value, it is clear that a marginal increase in travel time is more than justified where it saves lives and improves safety, public health and quality of life. From that perspective, the primary question is not whether journey times are marginally longer, but whether Wales becomes a safer, healthier and better place in which to live for current and future generations. While the theoretical figures applied to travel time impacts are a commonly used tool, they do not and are incapable of reflecting the wider real impacts. The policy is intended to save lives and reduce injuries. Compared to figures on 20 mph and 30 mph roads in England, casualties in Wales have reduced at a three times greater rate between 2022 and 2025. Whilst I and this Government stand over the fundamentals of this policy, I will also freely admit—and I think others will, even on the Labour benches—that there were issues with the initial implementation under our predecessors. And some of the points that Helen made earlier fall into that category. Plaid Cymru's proposal and a balanced and flexible approach to implementation were supported by a majority in the last Senedd; they could and should have been adopted from the outset. One of the clear lessons from implementation was that there were inconsistencies in how the policy was applied by councils across Wales, and that there were roads where local people felt that different speed limits would be more appropriate. Those concerns were heard, and as we've heard this afternoon, local authorities acted on those concerns. The previous Welsh Government did eventually revise its guidance, clarifying criteria, working closely with local authorities and empowering highway authorities to review roads in light of local circumstances. Councils across Wales have reassessed sections of the network, engaged with communities, considered local evidence and, where appropriate, made changes. I'll make one final point, if I may. Some people wanted every road to remain at 20 mph, others wanted every road to revert to 30 mph. However, the feedback from local authorities was clear. When asked, their residents did not want their own road to return to 30 mph. We therefore want to continue with this more pragmatic approach: the right speed on the right road, informed by evidence and community engagement. I therefore urge Members this evening to vote on the amendment from the Government. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
6. Reform UK Debate: Default 20 mph speed limit en
Are you going to talk about road safety?
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1. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy cy
Diolch am y cwestiwn, Vikki. Rydyn ni eisiau ei gwneud hi’n haws i fwy o bobl deithio ar fws ac ar drên ym Mhontypridd Cynon Merthyr. Mae hyn yn golygu bysiau a threnau sy’n gweithio’n well gyda’i gilydd, prisiau teg, a gwasanaethau sy’n dod ar amser. Mae metro de Cymru yn rhan bwysig o’r gwaith hwn. Rydyn ni hefyd yn rhoi arian i wella bysiau lleol a llefydd fel gorsaf Merthyr.
Official English translation
Thank you for the question, Vikki. We want to make it easier for more people to travel on buses and trains in Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr. That means better connections between bus and rail, keeping fares fair and providing reliable services. The south Wales metro is central to this work. We are also investing in improving local bus services and improving interchanges such as Merthyr.
1. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy en
This Government is committed to buses being a key part of the transport infrastructure, especially for those people who maybe cannot afford and don't have access to a private car. We've made sure that the bus fare for young people is continued and that's a commitment throughout the term of this Government. It was in the programme for government that we talked about yesterday. We're looking forward to seeing the consequentials come in, but, as an ex-Minister, you know that the consequentials come into the Government, the Government then decides on the priorities it sets to that. You've seen the priorities in the programme for government yesterday. But if I can give you one reassurance, I think that bus services are one of the key things that this Government will be differentiating itself for over the next four years, because we recognise the importance of them to those people who are furthest away from their own transport solutions.
1. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy en
Thank you for the question, David. I think the key thing for this is actually starting to recognise the truth of the matter. We've got a Transport for Wales service that's hitting its time targets ahead of everyone else in the UK. The latest statistics show that Transport for Wales was hitting over 80 per cent within three minutes of its required time. So, it is providing the service it needs to provide. The second part of this is about making sure we have the funding to be able to invest in that infrastructure. If I remember, when we talked about rail devolution when I came to this Siambr relatively recently, the benches behind me were against us having extra rail devolution, which is for precisely the same reasons that you're asking the questions. We want to make sure that people can access jobs, healthcare and just make society work. I'm just going to reiterate a point I made to Vikki a few seconds ago. This is important for us in terms of not just rail transport, it's important to us from a bus perspective as well, and I think that's going to be key for these four years ahead.
1. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy cy
Diolch am y cwestiwn, Lis.
Official English translation
Thank you for the question, Lis.
1. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy en
I think there are a couple of things here. One, it's very complicated. I think one of the things that learner travel has shown me is that this is probably the biggest difficult problem I've got on my horizon, excepting that I've got the M4 and the Menai on that as well. So, it shows the complexity of it. And I think it's been shown by this Government that we've taken this on as a cross-portfolio opportunity, because, as you say, this affects—. We're talking about education and Welsh learner education, but also post-16 education. And one of the things that I found most disconcerting is that, ultimately, learner travel and learner transport should be an enabler of people's education; it should not be a disenabler. So, this Government is keen and it was in our 100-day commitment. We've started work on it, particularly in relation to the Welsh language first, but then we're going to be focusing on post-16 education and, following that, it'll be additional learning needs learner transport as well.
1. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy en
I hesitate to thank you for the question, Jason, but I will do out of courtesy. At the business statement last week, you were reminded to use data carefully, and you used the same data now as you used then. This data doesn't relate to 20 mph. Let's give you the actual data: in 2025, there were 1,469 collisions on roads with 20 mph and 30 mph speed limits combined, which is 2 per cent higher than in 2024, when there were 1,445. But it is the second lowest annual number ever recorded in Wales. So, this proves that, when we've reduced speed limits, it's actually reduced collisions. And I've heard it from people over the other side of the Siambr, and I appreciate it. This saves children's lives. This is a policy that this Government supports. We recognise there were ways we could have done it better; we talked about that throughout the last term, and I think we'd say the same thing again. However, we've got to make sure we follow the evidence, and when the evidence gets polluted by words that aren't actually true, it distorts things. The one thing that I'm sure that I'm going to make sure I do is that I am evidence led; I'm not going to be just led by rhetoric that is from the benches behind.
1. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy en
Do you know, it's great when you see young people in the Chamber looking down, and looking down at what we're talking about today? It's with them in mind that I support this policy, because, ultimately, this is not about dogma, this is about safety and particularly children's safety. So, this is something that this Government supports; I think it sounds like it's got support from across other parts of the Siambr. Because, when it comes to dogma, there's no party more interested in dogma than the party behind me when they're talking about things like this. Ultimately, I care more about those children who are up there than I do about answering questions that are like this.
1. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy en
The Member is well aware that we're going to be coming back to this Siambr on 6 October with an update based on evidence. The reason we want evidence is to make sure that we make the right decisions and we don't—. We're not kicking the can down the road, we're actually making the right decisions based on what the evidence tells us. As he knows, as do other transport spokespeople in this room, I've made sure that I'm going to share that evidence ahead of this meeting, so we'll be in the position that this Siambr will be able to talk about things that actually are important, that actually matter. Because then, hopefully, we'll come to some consensus. The M4 isn't straightforward. Let's be honest. The M4, as a road, was built as part of the infrastructure around Newport. So, it's not just about the M4—this is about intra-Newport issues as much as it is about the M4. That's what this Government is going to do. I look forward to debating that on 6 October when we can talk about evidence.
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Diolch, Lywydd. Rwy'n falch o gael cyfle i siarad yn y ddadl hon heddiw. Mae tagfeydd yn fater diddorol i lawer o bobl yng Nghaerdydd a'r cyffiniau.
Official English translation
Thank you, Llywydd. I'm pleased to have the opportunity to contribute to this debate today. Congestion is an issue that many people in Cardiff and the surrounding area will be interested in.
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This debate starts with a very straightforward question: how do we make journeys better? The motion quite rightly focuses on motorists in Cardiff and the surrounding region, and I think we should take that seriously. I take that seriously. Congestion is one of those issues that almost everyone has experienced. It affects commuters travelling to work, businesses making deliveries, parents taking their children to school and people attending appointments. It can increase costs, reduce productivity and create frustration for those who simply want to get to where they need to be on time. But I think it is important that we are honest about the nature of the challenge. Cardiff is a major centre for employment, public services and economic activity in the south-east of the country. It attracts significant numbers of people every day from surrounding areas and further afield. That success brings economic opportunities for Cardiff and the wider region, but it also places significant pressures on the transport network. Cars and roads remain a vital part of that network. Any serious transport strategy must recognise that reality. That is why the Welsh Government's approach is focusing on improving connectivity across the whole network. For me, there are three realities we need to recognise. The first is that we need to make better use of the roads we already have. There are practical things that we can do: better management of incidents and roadworks, better information for drivers, making sure junctions and traffic signals operate as effectively as possible and understanding where the real constraints are so that we target investment where it can make a genuine difference. If there is a problem with a network, we should be prepared to tackle it. Roads matter. They carry people, goods, emergency services and businesses. They are not an optional extra in our transport system and we should not pretend that they are, and I don't pretend that they are. But the second reality is that we cannot build our way out of congestion. There will always be a temptation to respond to congestion by adding more road capacity; we've heard a bit of that already. Sometimes that will be the right thing to do, but it is not automatically the right thing to do and we should be wary of assuming that more road space will, by itself, solve the problem. More road space can attract more traffic, and, if we respond to every increase in traffic with another road building project, we can find ourselves spending more and more without ever really getting ahead of the problem.
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This is not an argument against investment. It is an argument for being disciplined about where we invest, what we are trying to achieve, and whether the evidence tells us that an intervention will actually work. And that matters particularly when public money is under pressure. We have choices to make and we need to be able to explain why we are making them. The third reality is probably the most important. If we want to make life better for motorists, which we do, we also need to make sure that not every journey is made by car. That may sound counterintuitive, but it isn't. If someone can make the journey by train, bus, bike or on foot, there is one less vehicle competing for the same limited road space. So, public transport is not anti-motorist. It is one of the ways we help the people who need to drive. That is why the south Wales metro matters. It means better, more reliable and more frequent rail services between the Valleys and Cardiff. It is why our £70 million investment in Cardiff Central, and the new tramway between Cardiff Central and Cardiff Bay, matters. It's also why bus reform matters, and it is why bus priority, better interchanges, active travel and better regional connections all matter. Because giving people a genuine alternative to the car isn't about telling them what to do. It is about giving them a choice. Frankly, people are much more likely to leave the car at home when the alternative is good enough to make them want to. This is the standard we should be aiming at: a bus that turns up, a train that people can rely on, a safe route to walk or cycle, and interchanges that actually work. A transport system that feels like one system, rather than a series of disconnected services. That's the ambition of one network, one timetable and one ticket. It is why regional planning actually matters. Because Cardiff's congestion is not simply a Cardiff problem. People travelling to Cardiff every day from Caerphilly, the Vale, Newport, Rhondda Cynon Taf, Bristol, and across the wider region, they don't stop being commuters when they cross the council boundary, and they certainly don't care which organisation is responsible for that particular stretch of road they are sitting on. They just want the journey to work. So, our planning needs to reflect how people live and travel. The south-east Wales corporate joint committee provides an important framework for doing that. Because the transport network is a system. If we only look at individual roads, individual modes or individual local authority boundaries, we risk missing how the system actually behaves and how a problem in one place can quickly create a problem elsewhere. That brings me to demand management. Cardiff Council is exploring the potential for a workplace parking levy. I recognise this is controversial, but I don't think it helps to reduce the debate to whether a workplace parking levy is simply good or bad. The proper questions are: what problem are we trying to solve? What would the intervention achieve? Who would pay? Who would benefit? What alternatives would people have? The current position is clear. There are no plans for the Welsh Government to bring forward the secondary legislation that would be required to enable a workplace parking levy in Wales. But I don't think that means we should stop thinking about the wider question. Our roads are under pressure, and we need to be willing to have an honest conversation about how we manage that pressure. If proposals come forward in future, they would need to be evidence led, properly assessed, fair, and subject to the appropriate consultation and statutory processes. There is a simple principle I would apply: demand management should never be about making lives harder for the sake of it. If we ask people to change how they travel, we need to give them something better to travel on. That means better public transport, better active travel, better regional connectivity, and a road network that is properly managed for the people who still need to use it. So, what would actually improve the lives of motorists? I think the answer is practical. It means more reliable journeys, fewer avoidable delays, better management of roadworks and incidents, and smarter use of the roads we already have. It also means helping more people to walk, wheel and cycle shorter everyday journeys so that road space is available. It also means providing alternatives that are good enough to take pressure off the roads. None of this is anti-motorist. In fact, I would argue exactly the opposite. If we can get more people onto reliable buses and trains, we create more space on the roads for the people who need to drive. If we make short journeys easier to walk and cycle, we take pressure off the network; if we manage incidents, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But we should also be wary of the easy answer. There is no silver bullet for congestion, there is no one road scheme, one bus scheme or one policy that will solve everything. The answer is to understand the problem properly and then use the right combination of interventions to tackle it. Sometimes that will mean making better use of the road network that we already have. Sometimes it will mean investment in infrastructure. Sometimes it will mean better transport, and sometimes it may mean managing demand. The important thing is that we start with the problem, not the intervention, because improving the lives of motorists is not about promising that every journey will be congestion free. That is not realistic. It's about making the network more reliable, making better use of capacity and dealing with problems. Ultimately, this is about people's time. Time spent in traffic is time people don't get back. It's time that could be spent working, with family, caring, or simply getting on with life. So, the test for us should be whether the decisions we take make those everyday journeys more reliable, more predictable and less frustrating. That means the Welsh Government and Cardiff Council—the Government are here to help—working together with our regional partners, looking at the network as a whole, rather than a collection of separate responsibilities. It means being prepared to tackle difficult problems, but also being honest about what different interventions can and cannot achieve. And crucially, it involves putting evidence ahead of easy answers because, ultimately, people are not asking us to win an argument about cars, they are asking us to make their lives easier. They want to know that when they leave home in the morning, they have a reasonable chance of getting where they need to be on time. They want a transport system that works. This is the ambition we should share, and I think we do, for motorists, for passengers, for businesses and for communities across Cardiff and the wider region. Not transport policy for its own sake, but a transport system that works better for everyday lives.
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Mae'n rhaid inni weithio gyda'n gilydd i wneud trafnidiaeth yn haws ac yn fwy dibynadwy. Mae hyn yn bwysig i yrwyr, teithwyr, busnesau a chymunedau. Diolch.
Official English translation
We must work together to make transport more accessible and more reliable. This is important to drivers, passengers, businesses and communities. Thank you.
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5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Our Vision for the Devolution of Rail cy
Yn ysbryd y sgwrs sydd newydd fod, rwy’n dysgu Cymraeg. Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae'n bleser gen i ddiweddaru'r Aelodau am y cynnydd yr ydym yn ei wneud ar ein hymrwymiadau ar gyfer y 100 diwrnod cyntaf ar y llwybr at ddatganoli gwasanaethau a seilwaith rheilffyrdd yn llawn. Heddiw, hoffwn esbonio ein gweledigaeth ar gyfer datganoli rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru, ac, yn bwysig, sut y byddwn yn bwrw ymlaen gyda llwybr clir a chredadwy i'w gyflawni.
Official English translation
In the spirit of the conversation that we've just had, I am a Welsh learner. I'm pleased to provide Members with an update on the progress that we are making regarding our first 100 days commitments on the pathway to the full devolution of rail services and infrastructure. Today, I want to explain our vision for the devolution of rail in Wales, and, importantly, how we will take forward a clear and credible pathway to achieve it.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Our Vision for the Devolution of Rail en
Railways are more than steel tracks and timetables, they are the arteries of our nation, connecting people to jobs, to education, to family and opportunity. When our railways work well, Wales works well. When they fall short, communities and the nation’s prosperity are held back. The current system for our railways is fragmented. Infrastructure is largely controlled at a UK level. Unlike the Scottish Government, the Welsh Government has no control over rail infrastructure investment. Accountability is shared in respect of the services delivered jointly by the Welsh and UK Governments, but not the levers to drive change. That means that decisions affecting passengers in Wales are too often made elsewhere, without the full alignment of Welsh priorities. For decades, the UK Government has failed to invest in the Welsh rail network and has instead allowed it to decline. The network in Wales makes up around 10 per cent of the total British network by track length, yet, over the past 15 years, Wales has received only 1.5 per cent of the total investment in enhancements. And starkly, only 9 per cent of the network is electrified, largely as a result of the core Valleys lines, compared to 45 per cent in England and 33 per cent in Scotland. And parties across the Siambr have acknowledged the unfairness of HS2 funding. We have lost out on consequential funding of £850 million up to the end of this spending review period, and that figure is growing exponentially now that the UK Government assesses that HS2 will now cost more than £100 billion. In comparison, the Scottish Government has received around £1.3 billion additional funding as a result of comparability with HS2, up to the end of the current spending review period. The Northern Ireland Executive has received around £0.5 billion. Our ambition is to change that. We have a vision of a devolved rail network, where rail services are designed around the needs of our people, our communities and our economy. Transport for Wales has already demonstrated what would be possible if Wales was responsible for both track and train. Through the transformation of the core Valleys lines, they have demonstrated that Wales can successfully own, manage and deliver major rail infrastructure transformation, which will change the lives of people in the south of the country, through better connecting communities and making them a more attractive place for businesses to start and grow. Our vision is to see that replicated throughout Wales, developing Cardiff Crossrail to make it easier for people to travel sustainably through our capital; building new stations in the south west, through the Swansea bay and west Wales metro; increasing rail capacity in the north of Wales through network north Wales; and increasing capacity through the middle of the country on the Marches line. This would be transformational to connectivity in Wales, but it will only be possible to deliver in full with the right powers and funding. Today, I want to set out the steps that we will take to move towards this vision, pursuing further devolution in a phased pragmatic way. Our first action will be to work constructively with the Department for Transport to deliver improvements under the current system. The UK Government recognised its historical lack of investment in Welsh railways in February and committed to funding Transport for Wales's £14 billion rail vision. Through the UK and Welsh Government Wales rail board, we will work constructively with them to agree priorities and a timeline for this funding and develop a credible pipeline of schemes, but we will also hold them to account to deliver on their promise for Wales. The Wales rail board also provides an opportunity for us to press that the schemes announced in the 2025 spending review are delivered at pace in this spending review period that runs up to 2029-30. In particular, I'll be focusing on how we can accelerate delivery of the Burns stations to offer greater connectivity and alternatives to M4 travel, and I expect Network Rail to work closely with Transport for Wales so that we can deliver these stations as quickly as possible. Secondly, the UK Government’s Railways Bill represents a significant moment of change, and we need to ensure the Bill works for Wales in a way consistent with our pathway to devolution. For the UK, it proposes a new public body, Great British Railways, to bring together track and train across Great Britain. It also introduces new mechanisms for collaboration between Governments, including a memorandum of understanding between the UK and Welsh Governments. But we must also be clear: the Bill does not fundamentally change where power sits; it does not provide Wales with control over rail infrastructure, its funding or investment decisions. As currently drafted, I have serious concerns about how a number of the clauses in the Bill affect the role of Welsh Ministers and this Senedd. I have already set these out to the UK rail Minister, seeking further engagement on how our aspirations for rail can be safeguarded and furthered. He has committed to urgent discussions so that we can ensure the current reforms secure better outcomes for Wales. To address these concerns, I will seek to ensure the Bill firstly enables a statutory underpinning for the role of Welsh Ministers and the MOU, enables parity for Transport for Wales and a deepening of the partnership with Great British Railways, and enables protection and enhancement of the devolved competence of the Senedd in respect of railways. These actions can improve how decisions are made, ensuring Wales has a stronger voice and clearer influence, making a difference to passengers. Thirdly, our manifesto commits us to negotiating fairer rail funding for Wales, and this remains central to our approach. Later this afternoon, we will hear from the Prif Weinidog, setting out our priorities for fair funding, something that is felt egregiously when it comes to rail. I have already written to the Secretary of State for Transport to set this out, and the Cabinet Minister for Finance will press for changes that recognise the reality of rail in Wales, including funding arrangements that reflect our responsibilities, recognition of Welsh Government ownership of infrastructure such as the core Valleys lines, and a fair share of investment to address historic underfunding. Without fair funding, devolution cannot succeed. With it, we can unlock transformational change. Finally, we will make the case for full devolution for Wales. That means decisions over rail funding taken not in Westminster but in Wales, as is already the case in Scotland; track and train integrated in Wales, as UK Government are seeking to do in England, with infrastructure devolved to Wales along with services on the network; and for cross-border infrastructure and services, a partnership role for Wales with UK Government and GBR to deliver effective management. This would provide a step change in our ability to align investment with Welsh needs, whilst managing risk in a balanced way. This Government wants to see a new Wales Bill to legislate for this and further powers for the Welsh Ministers, to give us the tools to improve the lives of people in Wales. I fully expect to work with UK Ministers to explore the pathway to achieving these objectives, whilst ensuring the Welsh rail network remains fully integrated with the wider GB rail network and continues to provide seamless connectivity.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Our Vision for the Devolution of Rail cy
Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae ein gweledigaeth yn glir. Rydym ni eisiau rheilffordd sydd wedi ei chynllunio yng Nghymru, wedi ei chyflawni yng Nghymru ac yn atebol i bobl Cymru. Fydd y daith ddim yn digwydd dros nos, ond mae gyda ni lwybr a'r penderfyniad i wireddu. Pan fydd ein rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth yn llwyddo, mae Cymru yn gweithio yn well. Diolch.
Official English translation
Dirprwy Lywydd, our vision is clear. We want a railway that is designed in Wales, that is delivered in Wales and that is accountable to the people of Wales. The journey will not happen overnight, but we now have a pathway and the determination to see it through. When our transport network succeeds, Wales works better. Diolch.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Our Vision for the Devolution of Rail en
Thank you for the question, I think, Jason. We enjoyed our first conversation when we met to talk about these issues, and I hope to have more of those constructive conversations into the future, and perhaps we spend our time talking about transport, which is the job I'm paid to do, which I think would be easier for me to do. You referenced whingeing. I'll tell you what I'm not doing. I'm not whingeing. I'm preparing to get on with the job to make Wales's transport system work, and rail is a key part of it. Now, when you speak to people about the proof of the pudding, the core Valleys lines and what's happened on the metro is a perfect example of what can happen when we get our act together and start working on it. And if you travel on it, you'll see the benefits of it, and you hear people every day saying how important it is that they can turn up to a station and get on a train that's comfortable and works and does the job it needs to do. We need to make that happen for the whole of Wales. Connectivity in some parts of Wales is really poor. Part of our responsibility is to make sure that changes. We cannot do that when people in Westminster are making the decisions and we have no say in it. We need to be the people making those decisions, and we have the proof that we can do it. The key thing that matters for making things happen is making sure there's a supply chain. One of the things that I'm acutely aware of is that we've got people who've delivered the core Valleys lines, who've delivered the metro, and they're raring and willing to go on the next stage of our next project when it comes to Wales. We've got the plans for the Burns stations. We need to get them going. I had a constructive conversation with the UK Government. We're going to pursue that in the same way as I think we agreed we'd have constructive conversations as well, as I did with others around this Siambr. But one of the things we shouldn't do is start suggesting that this is whingeing. This is about getting on with it. This is what we're doing. This is what I'm keen to do, and I won't be whingeing at all.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Our Vision for the Devolution of Rail en
Diolch, Vikki. Thank you for the question. So, I'm not going to stand up here—and I think we made it clear when we met—to be churlish about the work that's going on, and I feel we're building on the good work that's happened so far with the core Valleys lines, with the metro. I think this is good work, but we need to push it further, and I think that what we're setting out here is an acceleration of that move to take things on. And this is why devolution becomes so important, because, ultimately, this is about us making sure that the decisions are made in the right place to effect the right things. We don't think—and I think it's been broadly accepted previously in the Siambr—that Westminster's the right place to decide our rail infrastructure spending. The proof of the pudding is in a figure that I spoke about earlier: we've got 10 per cent of the rail network, yet only 1 per cent of the enhancements has been spent in Wales. So, we've been historically underfunded. Now, the £445 million that's in this spending review is a step in the right direction. It's insufficient to deliver the Burns stations in the way they need to be delivered. So, we're having a constructive conversation. And you asked about the specifics. I was really pleased with the positivity that came from my conversation with UK Government—pleasantly pleased with how it went. We've committed, the rail Minister and I, to also go into the next Wales rail board, where we can continue that engagement where the teams around us can see we're still on the same page. You asked whether I stood steadfast behind Transport for Wales's vision, and I do. This is something that makes a clear difference to Wales. But the problem is it needs to be funded properly, and that's the critical thing. So, when we're talking about the £14 billion, which has been repeated, we need to see that laid out in the next spending review, so that we can get on and do the work. What I've found with Transport for Wales is that they're ready to get on and do it, so I want to give them the resources, through the Cabinet Minister for Finance, to help that become a reality. Because the people of Wales are fed up with people kicking the can down the road. I'm not going to do that. What I want to make sure is that we get some movement on it. I welcome the question on devolution. I'm a big fan of devolution. I think that devolution is appropriate when it's at the right level. So, the key thing about devolution is making sure you make the right decisions at the right level. Rail, that's at a Wales level, and I'm clear about that. That's where we should be focused. When it comes to other priorities, I think we're in the right place. I think we're in the place where the CJCs make those decisions through the regional transport funds. But I think where we've got to do some more work is making sure that the citizen understands how they can influence that process. So, today, I think constituents know how to contact me in Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg. They would have known how to contact me as a local councillor. I'm not sure that citizens know how to engage with the CJCs in the same way. So, I think, when it comes to devolution, you need to make sure there's that link to make sure that works as well. But, generally, thank you for your questions. I think they're all constructive, and I appreciate that level of challenge and scrutiny. Diolch.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Our Vision for the Devolution of Rail en
Thank you, Peter, and, again, thank you for the constructive way you've framed the questions, albeit there's a few things that I think we take slightly different views on. But if we start at your last point first, 'Is power the important thing or is making people's lives better the more important thing?' Do you know, if I could see a way of being able to deliver things without power then I'd investigate that first? My first two points in my statement reference working with UK Government more constructively with the current powers that we've got. So, I want to be clear, when I'm dealing with UK Government, that I'm going to be somebody who always works constructively, is always honest and tries to get the best out of that relationship. That includes where we're connected across the country, and making sure that those things work. So, I'm not somebody who's just, there, power for power's sake. However, it is increasingly clear, if you just look—. You referenced the electrification figure. Only 9 per cent of our rail network is electrified; 45 per cent of the English network is electrified. The only reason, really, that 9 per cent is electrified isn't necessarily about GWR; it's more about what the Welsh Government did with regard to the core Valleys lines. So, let's make sure we get these things right before we move on. I'm glad you brought up the issue of resilience. I think we need to look at this in the frame of where things are happening. So, just as a backward look, when we had the red weather warning 10 days ago, 94 per cent of Transport for Wales services ran appropriately. Now, if you compare that to Paris, Paris lost 10 per cent of its network in the same period. Germany lost every single train that doesn’t have air conditioning in it, which was a huge number of trains, and Belgium similarly. So, we’ve got to be careful that we don’t characterise our transport network incorrectly. That doesn’t mean that we don’t need to do a lot of work on making sure we’re resilient and ready for these things. We’re about to hit another heatwave now, so these things aren’t going away. This will be three heatwaves this year so far. So, I think this is a really important point, and I expect to come back to this Siambr in short order to be able to talk about how we build a more resilient network. Part of it is about making sure the trains we put on the network, the buses we put on our roads, are appropriate to deliver the services. So, I was on a bus the other day, fully air-conditioned, it makes it a comfortable journey, the trains are similarly so, and that makes a real difference to things as well. We enjoyed our walk to school, I think, in Magor the other day, and it was good to see how committed the team were there to their project. The reflection I have from it is how long it's taken them to get to a point where progress happens, even in developing their community centre. And I think one of the things I'm keen to do is to make sure that we collectively can agree on lots of things. The more we can agree on, the more commitment people can start, and the funds can start to flow so that we know, even in four years' time, if the make-up of the Siambr changed in any way, we all know that we're committed to doing the things we are. And things like the Burns stations fit that profile. So, I welcome the broad support, I think, from you in this regard, and I think we'll continue to work together.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Our Vision for the Devolution of Rail cy
Diolch am y cwestiwn, Niamh.
Official English translation
Thank you for the question, Niamh.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Our Vision for the Devolution of Rail en
I think this is huge. You've just exemplified the reason why we need devolved powers, because we need to treat communities the same, and they need to be given the same opportunities whether they're in the Caerphilly part of your constituency or the Blaenau Gwent part of your constituency. But this requires long-term planning. Again, I'm going back to the point of us needing, I think, to get some collective consensus around how we go and do this. But, ultimately, I see no way of this happening without full devolution, to be able to make the decisions that matter, because we're closer to the people of Wales and their needs than they are in Westminster. That's the critical thing. We are having conversations. The conversations have started with UK Ministers. They know what we want, and it doesn't really matter who is in charge there, frankly. Our position hasn't changed, but we're doing it from a position of making sure we can make a real difference.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Our Vision for the Devolution of Rail en
Thank you for the questions, Adrian. I was worried then you might be hitting Mike Hedges's number of questions in one question. I'll do my best. I'm not sure 'sensible but' carries much weight, but thank you, I think—but I'm not sure. Our test is the same. Our test is: can we improve the passenger journey? Can we make things work quicker? Can we make things work more seamlessly? I think that's the ultimate test. Today, in some parts of Wales, we've shown that that's happening. In lots of Wales—and I think you've highlighted areas where it's not—it isn't. So, the job of Government is to get in there, roll up our sleeves and start work on those things with the same vigour as has happened down south. I'm chairing the next network north rail board, to show the commitment to the north of the country as has been shown down the south. And I'm keen and I'm happy to update you with that post that meeting as well. Devolution and powers have got to have a reason for them. I'm clear about that. I think I've made the case in this statement today, and I'll continue to make that case. The only way we'll make our railways better is if the powers are in this place.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Our Vision for the Devolution of Rail en
Thanks for the question, Jane. I agree with you, firstly, that we have the skills and the capacity to start doing the work. We've proven it. The teams are ready to go. A lot of these are Wales-based organisations and Wales-based workers. This is a good project to start. They need to get on there and help to develop the railways. I think the key point that you're making is the same point that I think I made in the—. The Scottish example is there to be able to work with. The key difference is that 33 per cent of their network is electrified, 9 per cent of ours—good indication. It's a different—. We've got more cross-border connectivity in Wales as well in terms of some of our services. I'm really proud, and I think our key exemplar that I like to use is basically the work that we've done on the core Valleys lines. I know I'm repeating myself, but you're starting to see some huge improvements and we can replicate some of that work elsewhere. It doesn't mean that it's all about rail. We talked about buses here last week. I think that we've got to make sure that our transport network is wholly integrated, so people feel comfortable and they see it as a seamless journey, being on, maybe, the north Wales coach, jumping on a bus and jumping on a train. These are seen as seamless, which is the reason for one ticket, one journey. We've got a lot of work that we've seen and a lot of benefit.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Our Vision for the Devolution of Rail cy
Diolch, Helen. Diolch am y cwestiwn.
Official English translation
Thanks, Helen. Thanks for the question.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Our Vision for the Devolution of Rail en
I think this is a really important point and it's a point that I'm happy to come back to the Siambr with. I have asked the same question. I think that when we talk about £14 billion, that's not the maintenance budget as well. That's really critical. So, we need to make sure that we have full devolution, so that we can do the work that needs to happen. Going back to the point that Peter referenced, and the fact that we need to build resilience, this is the core of building that resilience. We have got a network that, in some parts, we know hasn't had the support that it has needed for a number of years. So, it's really important, but when I have got the figure, I will come back to you on it.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Our Vision for the Devolution of Rail en
Diolch, Leti. I know you take a keen interest in rail from your job prior to this, where you were supporting Transport for Wales in its work as well. So, I'm grateful for your expertise as well. How do I answer that question? Just by turning it back and saying that we need the devolution and we need fair funding. Now, the pressure, I think, is twofold. So, the conversation needs to be a conversation with UK Government, where we are seen as a trusted partner. So, I want to make sure that, every time I have a conversation, they know that I'm being clear, I'm being direct, and I'm being honest with our needs and why we're working on it. But the other thing, I think, that was really—. When I spoke to the rail Minister a few weeks ago, he said that, to help him to go to the Treasury to get the funding that we need, what we needed is to be ready with the projects. So, that's the key difference. We are ready with the projects, to start to deliver, particularly on the Burns stations, because of the work that's been done. We're ready to go, and we can start kicking on with this. That's the critical difference. And I think that shows that, from rail, we're moving forward with things like never before. Diolch yn fawr.
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Open this sitting on the stage
1. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy en
Thank you, Vikki, for the question. I think the way you encapsulate it is absolutely correct in terms of that Newport and the M4 is a system and when you change one part of the system here, it has an impact elsewhere. We're really aware of that in terms of the solutions we're going to come across and try and work through. What I'm keen to do is to make sure those Members across the Senedd who are local to this get some technical briefing early on the subject, so we can all understand and speak from the same opportunities and same concerns. I understand people's concerns in Newport, and Newport is probably the area that you'll see me spending most time in over the next few months, because I think it's important that I get to understand the issues from the community's perspectives, from the leaders in those areas' perspectives, and also to make sure that we do something that reflects those concerns as well. So, we're going to be coming back in the autumn with what I think will be quite a balanced suite of measures, and, hopefully, those will be things that will get some broad support, which is what I'm looking for. I think it's important, as the Cabinet Minister said, that we look for areas where we can co-operate, so this is where we look for things we can co-operate on, and I look forward to having those conversations in more detail with the people who count.
1. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy en
So, again, thanks for that next question, and this builds on where we're trying to build a co-operative approach. So, I spent some time with Lord Hendy last week and the Secretary of State for Wales in what I think was—. Everyone left the room saying, 'That was a really constructive conversation.' I think we're all on the same page. We recognise that these are issues to be solved. There is a big problem in the room, though, that we need the finances to be programmed through, to show that we can get on with it. What Lord Hendy said specifically is, 'Is Wales ready to take these Burns stations on? Are you ready with the plans to make this happen?' And it gave me great pleasure to say 'yes', we were, and that's the sort of thing they're looking for, because when they go back to the Treasury they don't just want this vague idea of what things are going to happen. What they want is, 'This is what we're going to do. This is when we're going to go and do it.' And then, going back to your previous question, we can then speak to the people of Newport and elsewhere with some concrete plans as to when things will happen. Again, this is something where I think there are some opportunities for some broad consensus, because I think, as we stand at the moment, the public transport routes across Newport and around Newport aren't working as effectively as they can, so this is our opportunity for us to show as a body politic that we can deliver these things.
1. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy en
Our priorities are practical improvements people can see: better links to Newport city centre and stations, safer walking and cycling, reliable buses, and action on congestion. We will work with local and regional partners in Casnewydd Islwyn to deliver our shared priorities.
1. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy en
Thank you, Natasha, and thank you for your supplementary as well. I just want to recognise that you've been talking about this issue in the last Senedd and in this Senedd, so you've been consistent in this and you've consistently said the same things. We've ruled out the M4 relief road, the black route, and that's because of environmental concerns, cost concerns and also being able to do things in a timely manner, because I think the people of Newport and people across Wales need a solution that can be deliverable, which is my focus in terms of what's going on. The point you mentioned about the tunnelling methods I think is of interest, and it is something where we've had some references in Government already. I've got officials looking at that currently. It looks like it's something that's on the outer edge of what you can do. I think some of these things haven't been proven as a point yet, but they're things that we'd be keen to look at. In terms of closing motorway junctions, I think when you start to change things, closing motorway junctions is a likely thing that will happen in terms of change, whether they are permanent closures or they're temporary closures. What we've got to recognise—and I think this is the critical thing, going back to the question from Vikki earlier—is that what's important is that we consult and we recognise. And when it comes to consultation, it's got to be a true consultation. I was asked a question yesterday by team members: how do we better consult? Well, the key thing is to listen, and I'm committed to listening to the concerns of the people of Newport and elsewhere to make sure we do the right thing.
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Open this sitting on the stage
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Integrated Transport: North-South Coach Services cy
Ddirprwy Lywydd, rydw i'n falch o ddiweddaru Aelodau ar y cynnydd rydym yn ei wneud wrth gyflawni dau ymrwymiad 100 diwrnod cyntaf i wella trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus ar draws Cymru. Mae ymrwymiadau hyn yn glir: cryfhau cysylltedd rhwng gogledd a de Cymru, a chyflymu ein gwaith gyda Trafnidiaeth Cymru i greu system drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus fwy integredig, hygyrch a theg i bawb.
Official English translation
Dirprwy Lywydd, I'm pleased to provide Members with an update on the progress we are making in delivering two of our first 100 days commitments to improve public transport across Wales. These commitments are clear: to strengthen connectivity between north and south Wales, and to accelerate our work with Transport for Wales to create a more integrated, accessible and fair public transport system for all.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Integrated Transport: North-South Coach Services en
We have made tangible progress that reflects both the ambition of this Government and the practical steps we are immediately taking to improve public transport for people and communities right across Wales. For decades, our communities across much of Wales have faced real difficulty travelling between the north and the south, particularly in the west of the country. Whilst there can of course be challenges travelling east to west in Wales, we are generally better served with public transport options. Since the era of Beeching cuts, there has not been a public transport service across the west of Wales corridor. This means that the quickest way to travel by public transport from Bangor to Carmarthen is via England. Many in Wales have long argued for reopening the rail lines, and this forms part of Transport for Wales's rail vision. However, this would cost in the region of £2 billion. We want to improve connectivity now. This new north-south coach service will provide a similar journey time to the rail service and a similar standard of transport. The TrawsCymru bus network is of huge value in communities making longer journeys, particularly where there are no train services. This network now supports nearly 2.5 million passenger journeys annually. However, we also know that many of the journeys on the Traws network remain local, which is a perfectly legitimate and valuable use of the network, but we believe there is demand for longer distance journeys. This is precisely why I am pleased to announce our plans to introduce a new bookable coach service linking key communities from the north to the south of Wales. This will start in Bangor and end in Carmarthen, and include stops in Caernarfon, Porthmadog, Dolgellau, Machynlleth, Aberystwyth and Aberaeron. This will reduce public transport journey times by over an hour, linking communities and facilitating connections with both rail and local bus services, with the option of extensions to ports in both the north and south of the country in the future. We will invest £2 million in this scheme in this financial year. This scheme was subject to a full business case, developed as part of the co-operation agreement in the last Senedd, following extensive technical work and public consultation. Over 1,000 contributions were received, with strong public support for improving north to south Wales connectivity. Currently, communities along this corridor face a combination of challenges: limited access to services, economic constraints, long journey times, and a public transport offer that does not always meet expectations. This new service is designed directly to address those challenges. We have made rapid progress already. Transport for Wales have already purchased eight fully accessible, modern coaches; they have undertaken market engagement, and the procurement process for the service will begin later this week. I am grateful to TfW for the pace at which they have acted, delivering on our commitment to prepare to launch a north-south coach service during the first 100 days, ahead of the bookings opening prior to the service beginning in the autumn. I recognise that, if this service is going to be successful, there need to be regular coaches to support passengers to make the journeys that are right for them. Therefore, whilst we must wait until the procurement process has concluded before precise details can be confirmed, there will be two-hourly services from morning to evening. I also recognise that there are opportunities to improve existing infrastructure in some towns to help ensure we offer a fully accessible service. There are no barriers to beginning this scheme in the autumn, but TfW and my officials will work in partnership with local authorities to identify where we can enhance bus stops to ensure the service is as effective as possible. The introduction of the north to south coach is a significant and overdue step, but I am well aware that it is not enough on its own. This Government is ambitious about what can be achieved as we continue to develop our rail network and continue plans to deliver bus franchising. Dirprwy Lywydd, this is why we also committed, in our first 100 days document, to work with TfW to progress full integration of our transport network and fare capping. Whilst I have only been in role for a number of weeks, I have been pleased to see the progress already made to integrate our public transport system. However, I believe we can do more. I fully support TfW’s vision of 'One network, one timetable, one ticket'. Many people currently find that rail and bus service timetables don’t work together, that it's too difficult to plan a journey on public transport and that tickets are too complicated. This is why we are pushing forward with plans to extend smart ticketing on the rail network, rolling out tap on, tap off technology in north-east Wales, building on the successful roll-out now in place across the south of the country. This was across 15 stations on the Wrexham-Bidston route in May and will be extended to another 10 stations later this year. This will make travel simpler, quicker and more flexible, but we will not stop there. TfW are already working on plans to extend this further. We are continuing to develop a single digital platform for planning and booking journeys. I believe this is vital to retain existing public transport and attract new passengers. It can be a huge challenge to plan a journey on public transport currently, navigating bus and rail timetables across potentially multiple websites. TfW will bring journey planning, ticketing and real-time information together in one place, building on our already improved rail platform as we move towards bus franchising. Finally, I am grateful to the Cabinet Minister for Finance for allocating a further £8 million to ensure the £1 bus fare pilot will continue until the end of 2026-27. This scheme has been very successful, with over 6.5 million journeys now having been made using it. It's vital we retain support for our children and young people to access education, employment, training and leisure activities, as we know that transport can be a barrier. I want to emphasise that the commitments I have set out are more than just about transport. I see transport as key to achieving so much. It's about opportunity, connecting communities, strengthening our economy and delivering a more sustainable, inclusive Wales.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Integrated Transport: North-South Coach Services cy
Dyma pam yr ydym wedi cymryd camau ar unwaith, gan gyflawni ein hymrwymiadau 100 diwrnod, a pham y byddaf yn ceisio cynnal cyflymder ac uchelgais ein hymdrechion i drawsnewid trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Diolch.
Official English translation
That is why we have taken immediate action, delivering our commitments for the first 100 days, and why I will seek to maintain the pace and ambition of our efforts to transform public transport in Wales. Thank you.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Integrated Transport: North-South Coach Services en
Thank you for your question, Jason. I think what we've talked about there—. There are a lot of things that I would agree with in that statement and I think it's good to see that there's a lot of ambition that you want to see, and this is part of that. I'll tell you what this starts as being is a pragmatic start to make sure that things work, because we can wait forever for things to change, or we can make a difference quickly. This is about making a difference quickly; it's about making a difference that we know people will want to use. And we know that people will be interested in this. When we went out and consulted about this, 60 per cent of those people who were in that consultation said that they wanted to see this service that we've set out here, so we're confident that this is going to work. I think your point about it being operationally resilient is really important. And this is something that's at the heart of what we've set out here. This is the reason we've got these two-hour coaches. We want people to trust in them, we want people to believe that these are going to turn up when we say they're going to turn up, which is the reason we've limited the stops. We need to make sure that the coach can get from A to B, from north to south, in a time that's convenient for people and works for people. So, that's really important. It's also why we've already got eight coaches in the yard, ready to go. You mentioned integration, and I think integration is probably one of the key points of this service. To make it work, it needs to integrate. I referenced ports in my statement, but also integration with different towns that aren't on the direct network. Transport for Wales have been programming this whole system in, so it becomes a whole-system approach. So, it links into smaller conurbations that are on the outside, and they fit in and they can make sure that they're part of this solution too. Affordability is central to this, Dirprwy Lywydd, and I think that's one of the issues that we'll be talking to at the start. But the guarantee I can give is that this will be an affordable service that will make sense for people's pockets. It will be cheaper than a car, and it'll be the right service that people choose. I like the fact that you support our rail network. I look forward to talking about rail devolution next week. I hope to get the support from you behind us when we talk about rail devolution to make sure that we can talk with a united voice to UK Ministers when that time comes. I'll finish by saying the way that this project will be extended will be based on how it gets used. We are confident that we can deliver the service as it is now, but that doesn't mean we don't add stops in the future. That would be something that we'd look at on a demand-led basis. But the demand as it stands at the moment is what we've got here. Diolch.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Integrated Transport: North-South Coach Services en
Thank you, Vikki, and thank you for the broad support for the statement today. I think that shows that when good ideas come out, there's nothing to stop us working towards them. I think this was something that was originally worked up, as I said in my statement, as part of the co-operation agreement, so it shows that when parties co-operate, we can get things going and we can make progress. I'd like to think that this progress has been pushed forward because we've managed to get money from the budget straight away, so we're launching this. We will be launching this service in the autumn, so people will be able to book it from then. I think this is a good example of things working together. You mentioned online booking, and I think that's a really good point. I'm going to take that away, if that's okay, just to come back to you with the solutions to it. It's something that TfW already work with. People can book who struggle with using online systems on their own, but on this particular service, I'll come back to you on that one separately. I think accessibility is really important on travel as well. Just to give you an example of how we've worked on this service to make sure that people who are travelling with wheelchairs or who've got other bigger storage commitments can work with this service, I think you've got a situation where one of the stops was particularly difficult to be able to get a wheelchair on and off it because of the size of the coach, so we've managed to work with another space in the town. This is in Aberaeron, where you can park further up, and wheelchair access on and off can be made accessible. Every single stop here will be available to those people who need further access. We've also made sure that the time per stop allows those people to get on and off instead of it taking time off the whole journey. I mentioned integration in my answer to Jason. I think integration is key to this and TfW have been working really hard to make sure we integrate services, so whether it's local services, whether it's local authority active travel services, these are all part of the integration piece. What we need to recognise is that this is intended to be a fast journey between north and south, but when people come off, they can feed into the wider network. But we also recognise—and I did reference this—that people will be using it for shorter journeys because it's convenient. This will work if you want to go from Porthmadog to Dolgellau, Carmarthen to Bangor, perhaps. These are things where we recognise that the journey will be used. In terms of the commitment, the Cabinet Minister for Finance and I spoke about extending the £1 bus fare. Doing it for this year is making sure it's in for this year. Don't take that as an indication that it won't be in for further years; these are conversations that we'll have. This is clearly a service that young people really welcome and enjoy and use. We've got to try and make sure that we get passengers. If we get young people using public transport whilst they're young, we hope they extend that through to their lives more generally as well. Thank you.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Integrated Transport: North-South Coach Services en
It's always great when you get Janet really talking through our press release. It works quite well, so I really appreciate that, Janet, and thank you for your support. There's a wider connecting point about how we make sure our transport systems work together. That's something that I'm taking on board and I hear what you're saying. I think we need to make sure this is a practical, pragmatic solution that is about delivering this quickly. It suits people, people want to see this happen. It looks like there's demand for it. We'll soon see that in terms of it going ahead. We have to make decisions and we have to take things forward. This is doing exactly that. It matched our 100-day commitment, and this will be delivered. In terms of the 'when', we're working towards that. We're weeks away from announcing the 'when', but we're going through a procurement exercise, so you're just going to have to hold your horses a bit, but not for very long. We're really keen to get this running as soon as we can, I'm really keen to get this running as soon as we can, so people can use it. The booking window will start a few weeks out, so people will be able to plan their journeys a few weeks out from travelling to get on the road and the coaches to make it happen. You, like everyone else, have talked about integration. I hope I've made it clear that integration is key to making this work. That's integration from different modes. Some of it can be about car—
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Integrated Transport: North-South Coach Services en
It can be tap on, tap off. I've talked about 'one ticket'—this is all part of that same system and part of that vision, which is something we're keen to support so that Transport for Wales can deliver that. You mentioned bus franchising; this links into that quite clearly as we go through. But I do appreciate the support on this. Thank you.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Integrated Transport: North-South Coach Services cy
Diolch am eich cwestiwn, Elwyn.
Official English translation
Thank you for your question, Elwyn.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Integrated Transport: North-South Coach Services en
I appreciate it. I think this—. Again, there's a lot of repetition. I agree with you, this is an opportunity to change the way that we travel. It's a starting point. We're a long way, going back to the point I made when I spoke to Janet, from getting this right, but we're on track—maybe that's the wrong word—we're on track to show that we're making progress. In terms of passenger numbers and making sure that we link with actual travel patterns, we've spoken to a lot of people, so there's been a lot of research done. Since it came up in the co-operation agreement, there's been a lot of energy and it's been spoken about and worked on with local authorities and others, to make sure this matches the requirements. So, I think we're in a position where we've got a good starting point, hence the stops that have been chosen so far. But this is work in progress. As I said in my answer to Jason earlier as well, this is something we'll review in terms of how you can expand it. But the key to it is about getting the passenger numbers up, and part of that is making sure that people are confident that the service will be there. This is why we've made sure, with the support of the Cabinet Minister for Finance, that the money is there to make sure the service is there and it is regular and it can be relied on. I think, then, there are opportunities for us to extend that service, once we can see that passenger numbers are coming through. I think it's got an opportunity to be a real commercial service over the long term as well, as it gets used. Diolch. Thanks for the question.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Integrated Transport: North-South Coach Services en
Diolch, Jane. This is something that has already crossed my desk, so this isn't news to me at all. But before I get on to that question, I just want to thank you for your support, especially about the £1 bus fares. When I met all the opposition spokespeople, this was the first thing you said when you came into the room, and we couldn't confirm at the time, but we're able to confirm it now, to extend that service. So, thank you for your support on that. With regard to the T4, I've asked officials already to start working on this alongside Transport for Wales. There are some commercial issues at play here, which is the reason that we're in the position that we are in, but I don't think they're insurmountable, but they may not be immediately resolvable. But it is something that's one of my priority issues to sort out. I recognise if we want this transport system to work in the way that we expect it to, and it seems like there's some consensus around the Siambr for this, then we need to make sure that, where there are breaks, we resolve them as soon as we possibly can. Diolch.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Integrated Transport: North-South Coach Services en
Diolch, Pred. All of these—. Again, at the risk of repeating myself, it's so important that we get the pricing of this right and that it's accessible for people, and people know that this becomes a much better value option than taking your own car and that it will be a much better value option than taking the train. These are things that we need to be—. And especially for people who want to take families et cetera on this journey too, this is a solution that should solve a lot of people's problems. One of the groups I think who we think will probably use this will be students, for example, as they travel across the country, so this is one of the opportunities that we get for those as well. Bus franchising gives us the opportunity to make the changes that we need to make, and this is where we need to dig in and do the hard work to make sure that we get the single ticket and that everything becomes so visible for people. Because at the moment, as I said in my statement, it's actually quite difficult for people to cross between website A, website B, website C, and working those things out on a screen can be hugely difficult. We can make that a lot easier. The technology's out there. This isn't rocket science. We need to get into it. And we just need to get all—. We have multiple operators running our bus network, as you know, and our coach network now, so we've just got to use bus franchising as a way of being able to integrate them, and integration, integration, integration.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Integrated Transport: North-South Coach Services en
Thank you for the question, Anna. I completely agree with everything that you just said. I think it's really important—again, I'm using that integration word, because this is huge. This is what will make the difference between this service being a success or otherwise—the ability for people who are not on the direct route to be able to access this. So, this is about working on the routes that fit. We know the times broadly that they're going to be dropping in. We believe this could take about an hour—at least an hour—from the journey, if you were to do it, by multiple bus routes at the moment, it would be up to an hour and a half. So, we know the times they're going be arriving close to those other places, and we just need to make sure that those other places are connected in. And officials in TfW are working on that. Now, this is part of the design that's being worked up today. I think there'll be things that we'll review as we start to build on this process, but reviewing it and learning from it is central for this to be a success. Diolch yn fawr.
15
Open this sitting on the stage
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Key Infrastructure Resilience cy
Dirprwy Lywydd, rydw i eisiau diweddaru Aelodau am yr achosion o gau pont Menai yn ddiweddar, y gwaith sy'n mynd rhagddo i ddelio â phroblemau strwythurol a'r rhaglen ehangach i gryfhau gwydnwch y croesfannau rhwng Ynys Môn a'r tir mawr. Byddaf hefyd yn rhoi diweddariad ar y camau i fynd i'r afael â'r heriau ar goridor yr M4 yn y de.
Official English translation
Dirprwy Lywydd, I want to update Members on the recent closures of the Menai suspension bridge, as well as the work under way to address structural issues and the wider programme to strengthen the resilience of crossings between Ynys Môn and the mainland. I will also provide an update on the actions being undertaken to address challenges on the M4 corridor in south Wales.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Key Infrastructure Resilience en
Members will be aware—. This is a bit easier now. [Laughter.] Members will be aware that the bridge has experienced repeated closures in recent weeks, triggered by drivers ignoring the 7.5 tonne weight limit. It is frustrating for everyone when clear restrictions are not followed. These limits are in place to protect the bridge during ongoing maintenance works, and compliance is essential if the bridge is to remain open safely. When the weight restrictions are breached, precautionary structural inspections are required, and that, in turn, means closure and disruption to those in the area. Ensuring the safety of the structure, the workforce and the public must come first.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Key Infrastructure Resilience en
The bridge has been subject to a series of structural issues identified through ongoing inspection, including deficits in critical components such as hangers and bolts beneath the deck. This is a 200-year-old structure never designed for modern traffic demands, and it will continue to present challenges. While the hanger replacements and strengthening works have enabled reopening with restrictions, the bridge remains subject to a 7.5 tonne limit and traffic management measures. The current phase of work is focused on stabilising and preserving the structure, including repairs to crossbeams and bolts beneath the deck alongside wider refurbishments, such as repainting, concrete repairs and lighting upgrades. These works are programmed to be completed in spring 2027, and to keep disruption to a minimum. This Government will press forward to resolve this at pace. The contractor, UK Highways A55 Ltd, and their supply chain have used innovative techniques to design access platforms under the bridge, with an aim to avoid daily lane closures and keep the bridge open and free-flowing for the local community. This is dependent on strict adherence to the weight limit restrictions, which are essential to keeping the bridge safely open during this work. This Government is also working actively with North Wales Police and the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency to undertake further enforcement in the area and achieve better compliance with the weight limit. It is unfortunate that these weight limit breaches continue to occur despite the extensive measures that have been considered and implemented. The construction programme, as I said, is expected to continue until spring 2027, reflecting both the complexity and additional defects identified during inspection. My officials will continue to work closely with UK Highways A55 Ltd to ensure that delivery is as efficient as possible. Llywydd, I recognise the disruption that these closures have caused to communities across Ynys Môn and all those travelling in the north of the country. This has understandably led to deep frustration and increasing anger amongst those affected. This Government will act with greater urgency and focus on short-term measures and long-term solutions to improve resilience across the Menai strait. That brings me to the wider issue of network resilience, both across the Menai strait and on the M4 in the south of the country. The Menai crossings operate as a system. Britannia bridge carries most traffic, but is vulnerable to high winds, while the Menai suspension bridge has lower capacity and requires ongoing maintenance. When one crossing is restricted, the impact is felt across the region. We are progressing recommendations from the north Wales transport commission, and this includes proposals for wind deflectors on Britannia bridge to reduce weather-related disruption, alongside broader work to improve how the two crossings operate together during periods of pressure. We're also progressing options to improve traffic management on the A55, including signalling upgrades and variable speed limits on Britannia bridge, so that disruption can be managed more effectively and when restrictions are required on either crossing. Looking at the longer term, we will now start looking at detailed options for a third Menai crossing, building on the work already undertaken. Llywydd, turning to the M4 around Newport, this remains one of the most constrained and heavily used transport corridors in Wales, with long-standing challenges around congestion, resilience and reliability. It is a route of national importance for communities, commuters and freight, and disruption on this part of the network can have consequences far beyond the immediate area. While a range of interventions has been considered over many years, no single solution will fully resolve these pressures. Incremental improvements alone have limited impact, and the corridor continues to operate beyond capacity, particularly at peak times. Communities and businesses have lived with this congestion, uncertainty and delay for too long while previous Governments on both sides of the border have failed to turn this debate into delivery. This Government has committed to renewing work to identify a clear and evidence-based way forward, making use of the substantial body of analysis already available. This Government will not simply return to old positions or repeat work that has already been done. The answer is not another external review that kicks the can down the road one more time. Therefore, today I am announcing a short, focused programme of work to explore realistic options across road, rail and bus interventions. The emphasis is on measures that are practical, deliverable and capable of making a meaningful difference in the near to medium term. That includes accelerating delivery of public transport alternatives, targeted measures to improve flow and resilience on the existing road network and better integration between strategic and local transport systems. The work will draw on the substantial evidence base already available and focus on identifying practical and deliverable alternatives. To be clear, this Government does not believe the black route is a credible option. Instead, we will focus on a balanced package of measures reflecting the scale and nature of demand in the corridor. I will report back to Members on the outcome of this work in Plenary early in the autumn, setting out the Government’s way forward. To summarise, Llywydd, both the Menai crossings and the M4 illustrate the wider challenge of managing ageing infrastructure in the face of increasing demand. In the north of the country, we are progressing both immediate measures and longer term options to strengthen resilience across the Menai strait, including considering detailed options for a third crossing. In the south of the country, we are undertaking targeted work to identify a clear and deliverable strategy for the M4 corridor. Whilst these works can be disruptive, they are necessary to ensure safety and to support the longer term reliability of our transport network.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Key Infrastructure Resilience cy
Byddaf yn parhau i ddiweddaru Aelodau fel mae'r gwaith yn mynd yn ei flaen. Diolch.
Official English translation
I will continue to keep Members updated as this work progresses. Thank you.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Key Infrastructure Resilience en
Thank you, James, for the question. We've focused on these two parts because they're the two areas that we've named as being key structural problems that the people of Wales are seeing as a real problem today. So, I think what people are asking for is for us to be able to solve the problems that people are facing. The programmes that are already in train are still going to be in train. So, these are things that we're still looking at across the piece. This isn't something where things have changed. But I've been focused on these two items because they're important for the people of Wales.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Key Infrastructure Resilience en
Thank you, Vikki, and I look forward to working with you. One of the things I'm quite keen to do is to make sure that we all work from an evidence base across this Siambr, because one thing I've learned quite quickly in this brief is that, when you start to want to deliver things, they take a long time to do. So, these are things that, basically, we were looking for, across this Siambr, people looking to support measures that we're taking ahead. I'm really pleased that you identified the importance of transport across portfolios. I think one of the things that I'm excited to do is to support Members from across the Government in their roles as well, to make sure we support them. Whether it's on the economy, health or whatever, I think it's a societal basis for what we do more than anything else, so it's hugely critical. You asked a question about whether or not the works would be finished on Britannia bridge before spring 2027. I think what's happened is that there have been other things that have been found, as I referenced in my statement, and those are the things that—. We're going to try and keep to spring 2027 as the delivery date; that looks the most likely date. I think one of the things we've got to be careful about is suggesting dates that don't happen. Spring 2027 is looking like the date that we can achieve on this now, providing other things don't come and stand out even more. The roads review, and also linking into junctions. So, these are things that we're going to get into as part of this review. When we report back to Members in the autumn, we'll go into detail about this, about how these things will change. Because I think you're right; one of the things that I think you referenced is that, to deliver the changes on the M4, it will have an impact to the side, and it'll have an impact in Newport. So, we've got to think about all of these things in the round, and one of the things that's critical is that we communicate with people as to how these things will affect them. I think that's probably the most important thing. Early communication will be essential, not just for people in this Siambr, but also people beyond, so that they understand how their lives will be impacted. One of the things I think we've also got to reference is that the M4 is an ageing structure as a general entity, so it will require lots of work over the coming years. So, we're expecting some disruption now even without this work, so we've got to make sure that we communicate that clearly to people, because the longer-term benefits will be clear. Better integration. Absolutely, I think this is one of the key things. Ultimately—hopefully, you got this from my statement—there is no easy answer to this. This is multifaceted. So, better integration is key. I think there's a lot to build on from the work that's been done before, because this is tricky stuff, but it needs to be integrated, and, actually, it's about how do we find ways of making sure—. Because the journeys that are taken on this part of the M4 are, basically, between Swansea and Bristol and in between that, how do we help people to make better use of those journeys as well over time? Costs, the final thing. We'll reference this in the autumn. I think some of the things that we want to try and do are to make sure what our clarity over the way forward is going to be, which is critical when you're looking at things like Menai, with the infrastructure that's been developed on Ynys Môn with regard to the nuclear small modular reactor facilities. So, some of those may be opportunities for us to look at, but the cost of these things is going to be a secondary piece of work that we do as part of this work that we'll come back to Members with in the autumn. Thank you.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Key Infrastructure Resilience en
I sometimes wonder what I just walked into there, and whose responsibility. So, there's a lot in what you said, Janet, that I think is really important. One of the things that's important is that we're talking about how we make sure that our transport system works for the whole of Wales. I think that's something that's central to how I want to tackle this job and the things that are really important to me. There are things that will be different in the way we approach it, but one of the things that I'm keen for us to do in the relationship that we have, broadly, across this Siambr, is that we work with data. You've heard that quite a lot from this Government. It's been repeated, and it's been repeated for a reason, insofar as we're on the same page to know how the impact of these things can happen, because we're working in a constrained budget. So, we need to do things that are most appropriate to make the things work. There's a number of items—. I've been focused on the resilience of two areas in this statement. There's a number of items that I think I look forward to you talking to me about at questions. I'll deal with those ones separately, if that's okay. So, on the rail network, on active travel and the scrapping of—. There's a number of things there that are related, which I'll take separately. One thing that I think is important is that we, like I say, as a Siambr, understand the complexity of what we're dealing with, and just trying to get some compromise as to how we move this thing forward, because the people outside here want progress, and that's what I'm here to do. So this is about making sure that we take action on things. But we all recognise that, in the four years, some of these things won't get delivered in the four years, because some of these things are complicated. [Interruption.] Some of these things are—. Thank you, Janet. Some of these things are complicated. So, what they need is a commitment that we can move forward on, and that's what I'm committed to do. Thank you.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Key Infrastructure Resilience en
Thank you, Jason, and I think there's some stuff there that we could actually work together on, because I think you've talked about the need that we need to be working together for the benefit of the entirety of the people of Wales. You asked for a lot of detail, and what I've committed to do is to come back to Members in the autumn. We've effectively added it to the 100-day plan, so you will have that detail and you'll have it in readiness. And then I expect the scrutiny to be demanding, and I look forward to it. It's something that I think the people of Wales expect the same level of scrutiny to come to us in that regard as well. I don't accept that this is a patch-job job, because I think what we're looking at is something that is really going to make a difference to the people of Wales. That's what we're intending to do. I think that some of these things, there are restrictions around the M4. It's clear you've got the Severn one side and you've got mountains and hills the other side that restrict what you do, with a growing population in the middle of it. So, you need to make things work. Ultimately, part of this solution is about making sure that public transport works as well. Public transport will be the key that unlocks productivity here, and it's something that we're committed to. And public transport not just being rail, being bus as well, so, linking into the bus franchising work that's already been done too. You talk about previous administrations spending money on the M4. One of the reasons that we're keen to be able to move on this at pace is that we believe that a lot of the work is there. There's a lot of evidence already there, so we're going to dig into this, because we've got no interest in wasting time or money on doing things that take an excessive amount of time. So, we want to make sure we get to this quickly and get back to it. But I look forward, as I said to you earlier today when we met, to us sharing data that gives us guidance to how we move forward on all these things. Thank you.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Key Infrastructure Resilience en
Thank you, Paul. So, I share your view on the black route, which is the reason I referenced it directly in this statement. We need to also recognise where people actually are. So, I believe that we need to move people into public transport, and it needs to be done as soon as we can. I think there's data out there that shows that people aren't moving as quickly as they could or should be. So, we've got a situation where people are angry with what's happening to them when they're stuck in traffic jams, so we need to do something that will help them do that, which is part of the priority. But ultimately, like I said in the previous answer, we're constrained in this area, so we need to make sure that the solutions are largely public transport related. So, that's going to be the key focus. But when I answered Vikki's question earlier, it's about making sure we recognise that if we do things—. The M4 is not just a through-route beyond Newport; it's also an intra-Newport route as well, so it gets used by other people within Newport. So, we have to recognise that if you make a change within Newport that solves some of these problems, you'll start to have knock-on effects elsewhere. So, this has got to be an activity that recognises the complexity of what we're talking about, and that's why it will be a detailed piece of work. But like I said, the detail I think is largely there for us to dig into.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Key Infrastructure Resilience en
Diolch, Mair. I think that, on the first thing, in terms of what's happening now to try and make sure that we have fewer issues, only vehicles under 7.5 tonnes, as we know, may use the bridge while restrictions remain in force, and overweight vehicles will be turned away. I think, where appropriate, instances of non-compliance also need to be and will be reported to the police for enforcement. We have increased the presence of both police and traffic officers to support compliance and to help ensure the bridge can open safely. If breaches continue, we must be clear that closing the bridge may be the only safe option available. So, we've really got to make sure we stop the breaches, that's the critical thing. On the works programme, the works form part of the necessary long-term refurbishment programme to protect this historic bridge, and to ensure that it can continue to operate in the future. So, they're necessary. We believe that we will hit the spring 2027 deadline, which is obviously critical. When it comes to UK Government, I think this talks back to how we need to collectively understand what our ask is from this Siambr as well, so that we can point to the UK Government and say we want their support and help to do it. This is going to be one of the key issues I bring up when I meet the UK transport Minister, alongside a number of other issues, including in the south of the country as well. We'll be covering that and also rail infrastructure too. But, ultimately, the UK Government has a part to play, Ynys Môn being a strategic part of the route for a number of things, not just the links to Europe. These things have got to be seen, as we can't leave the resilience of this crossing to be with the gods as it is at the moment, which doesn't work for communities nor for the businesses that use it either.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Key Infrastructure Resilience en
Thank you, Jayne, for that, and I recognise that you've written to me a number of times about it since I've been in post. I think you're the person I've received most letters from with regard to this issue, so I recognise that you find it hugely important to you and your constituents. To start on the black route and just repeat: the Government does not believe the black route is credible, so that's off the table, and we're taking it off the table today. All other road options except the black route are in scope, so we're looking at things that can solve the problems here. We're looking across the piece and that will be part of the work that we're putting together. Are there other credible road options? That's part of what we'll come back to, and we'll be back in front of Members in the autumn to talk to. But, as I'm hopefully stressing, this is a multifaceted approach. This is about making sure that everything works together. So, there may well have to be some junction closures, but this will be stuff that we deal with in the round. This road network is not designed for the amount of traffic that it’s taking at the moment. Everyone knows that in this Siambr. The solutions are public transport focused—the ultimate solutions—and that will be where we put a lot of effort. But this is where we're going to come back. In terms of the question about the previous work that's been done, what I was referencing is that we're going to dig into the work that's been done and that will form part of this announcement that we make in September, when we come back after recess. So, the work that's been done will be a key part of what we talk to Members about then.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Key Infrastructure Resilience en
Diolch, Jane. This wasn't intended to be a transport strategy message today, so we will be coming back with a fuller transport strategy to be able to update Members in that regard. But just to put your mind at rest, like you, I think we need an integrated strategy that covers the whole of Wales. So, this is something that I'm really keen to make sure that we do properly, and I think that ultimately rail and bus travel are central planks of that solution. We've got to recognise that lots of people still see their car as being really the way that they travel at the moment, so there's still a big piece of work to encourage people to use the buses and use the trains. And the bus franchising that's going to be rolled out is part of making sure that happens, with routes that suit people's needs, and making sure that they actually work for the people. Rail network, the same. We need to make sure that these things work for people in the way that they do, and lots of that's about making an integrated transport policy that works, a cross-modal policy as well.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Key Infrastructure Resilience en
Diolch, Peredur. The first thing, in terms of the Burns stations, is these are a key part of the solution, I think, in terms of this, so we'll come back in terms of how we expect the UK Government to do more than they've done so far. There's a promise in the ether, but we need these things to be in sight as to how we actually make the stations a reality. Because one of the key things is to make sure we can get people to utilise the trains and see the trains as an effective solution for those journeys that we're needing to get off the M4. They're critical, and the UK Government has a part to play to make sure that these things happen in a timescale that suits the people of Wales. Ultimately, that's what we've got to focus on. I agree entirely with your point about the Gwent levels, and that's one of the key reasons why the black route is off the table. We think they need to be protected. It's not something that we would countenance doing. When it comes to the solutions, even if it were built now, the timescales associated with it mean that it isn't the key long-term solution. There are other long-term solutions that relate to rail that would be better suited, and better suited to the environment as well. So, that's critical. You talk about talking to people. I think that's probably the most important thing. I think communication has got to be something that we dig into in a big way in this thing, and that's about taking people with us. That's not just the interested parties in Newport; that's the people of Newport, that's the people of the wider area. This is about an exercise in us having engaged conversations that we listen to as well, rather than it just being a one-way street. I'm really looking forward to those. I want to make sure that I'm personally engaged in those conversations as well, and the same goes for the Menai in that regard too. I think it's important that we're out there engaged with those conversations. Thank you.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Key Infrastructure Resilience en
Diolch, Huw. I'm not going to commit to it today. I think the point you made is about the system. We're dealing with a transport system here, and when things go wrong in one part of the system, it has a rolling effect elsewhere. I think the way you described what happens in the eastern part of Cardiff is pertinent to all these conversations. I think what you end up doing is if you don't solve the problems and take people out of their cars and into using public transport, or you give them other alternatives, then we're just never going to solve the problem, frankly. So, it's really important we get to grips with the issues at hand. What you talked about in the eastern side of Cardiff is true in other parts—Newport in particular. We've got to be really mindful about the impact of things we do on communities that we go into. This is a critical part of the thinking, because it's all too easy to see some of the solutions without seeing the communities that they affect. The system problems are the things that we need to be looking at. Thank you.
5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Transport: Key Infrastructure Resilience en
Thank you for the welcome. I'm really pleased that you're prepared to work together on these things. I think that's an important starting point, and I welcome that support. I've outlined why the black route isn't a credible option for us. I think you described it as 'fast track'; I don’t think there's anybody else who would consider that to be a fast-track option for the solution to this, and neither is it something that has the long-term benefits that will solve the problems over the long term. Everything else I'm keen to engage with you and your colleagues on, and I think that these are things that will try and solve the problem. But ultimately, what we've got to do is utilise the other roads in the network that we could be utilising more. The Heads of the Valleys road, newly redesigned, is a really good example of something that could be used for more freight, so how do we make sure that that fits into this solution as well? I think there are solutions that are out there that form part of this conversation. The thing I think we share and we agree on is that, ultimately, a lack of action is not a credible solution, so we have to be action orientated, and we have to help those people who are stuck in queues at the moment to have better alternatives. Those better alternatives may not be more road space for them, it just may be better trains that work, which is part of what came out of the Burns review, so we lean into some of those things and get those things moving quicker as well.
Roll-call divisions, by sitting day
70 recorded votes. Official division result.
- For
- 36
- Against
- 31
- Abstain
- 3
- Did not vote
- 0
Counted by Siambr: a sum of the official division rows.
For Against Abstain Unlit desk: did not vote
3 divisions
Members' Legislative Debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv): An NHS first Bill
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- Motion For Agreed
Reform UK Debate: Prostate cancer strategy
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- Motion For Agreed
Welsh Labour Debate: The M4 around Newport
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- Motion Against Agreed
3 divisions
Reform UK Debate: Local referendums on council tax rises
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- Motion Against Not agreed
- Amendment 1tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan For Agreed
- Motion as amended For Agreed
6 divisions
Reform UK Debate: Regional rugby
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- Amendment 1tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan For Not agreed
- Motion Against Not agreed
Reform UK Debate: Access to HMOs and social housing for foreign nationals
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- Motion Against Not agreed
- Amendment 1tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan a Lynne Neagle For Agreed
- Motion as amended For Agreed
Member Debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv): Family Drug and Alcohol Courts
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- Motion Abstain Agreed
1 division
Debate: Fiscal Reform
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- Motion For Agreed
4 divisions
Reform UK Debate: Default 20 mph speed limit
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- Motion Against Not agreed
- Amendment 1tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan For Agreed
- Motion as amended For Agreed
Welsh Conservatives Debate: The defence sector
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- Motion Against Agreed
5 divisions
Reform UK Debate: Wales and the United Kingdom
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- Amendment 2tabled in the name of Lynne Neagle Against Not agreed
- Motion as amended For Agreed
- Motion Against Not agreed
- Amendment 1tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan For Agreed
Welsh Labour Debate: Further education
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- Motion Against Agreed
10 divisions
Reform UK Debate: Grooming gangs
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- Motion Against Not agreed
- Amendment 1tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan For Agreed
- Amendment 2tabled in the name of Paul Davies Against Not agreed
- Motion as amended For Agreed
Reform UK Debate: Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board health visitor pay dispute
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- Motion Against Not agreed
- Amendment 1tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan For Agreed
- Amendment 2tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan For Not agreed
- Amendment 4tabled in the name of Lynne Neagle For Agreed
- Motion as amended Against Not agreed
- Amendment 3tabled in the name of Paul Davies Against Not agreed
5 divisions
Welsh Conservatives Debate: Deposit-return scheme
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- Motion Against Not agreed
- Amendment 1tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan For Agreed
- Motion as amended For Agreed
Reform UK Debate: Bovine TB
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- Motion For Agreed
Member Debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv): Young people and employment
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- Motion For Agreed
2 divisions
Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill
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- Motion For Agreed
Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27
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- Motion For Not agreed
4 divisions
Member Debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv): Ophthalmology services
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- Motion Abstain Agreed
Reform UK Debate: The tourism sector
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- Motion Against Not agreed
- Amendment 1tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan For Agreed
- Motion as amended For Agreed
4 divisions
Debate: Fair Funding
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- Amendment 1tabled in the name of Lynne Neagle Against Not agreed
- Amendment 2tabled in the name of Llŷr Powell Against Not agreed
- Amendment 3tabled in the name of Paul Davies Against Not agreed
- Motion For Not agreed
4 divisions
Reform UK Debate: Nation of Sanctuary
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- Amendment 1tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan For Agreed
- Motion as amended For Agreed
- Motion Against Not agreed
Welsh Labour Debate: Funding for additional learning needs in the first Supplementary Budget 2026-27
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- Motion Against Agreed
10 divisions
Welsh Conservatives Debate: Hospital services and hospital closures
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- Motion Against Not agreed
- Amendment 1tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan For Not agreed
- Amendment 2tabled in the name of Lynne Neagle Against Agreed
- Amendment 3tabled in the name of Llŷr Powell Against Agreed
- Amendment 4tabled in the name of Lynne Neagle Against Not agreed
- Motion as amended Against Agreed
Reform UK Debate: A Welsh Rivers Act
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- Motion Against Not agreed
- Amendment 1tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan For Not agreed
- Amendment 3tabled in the name of Paul Davies Against Not agreed
- Amendment 2tabled in the name of Lynne Neagle Against Not agreed
4 divisions
Reform UK Debate: Government international spending
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- Motion Against Not agreed
- Amendment 1tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan For Agreed
- Motion as amended For Agreed
Reform UK Debate: Statutory register for lobbyists
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- Motion For Agreed
5 divisions
Reform UK Debate: Childcare offer
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- Motion Against Not agreed
- Amendment 1tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan For Agreed
- Amendment 2tabled in the name of Lynne Neagle For Agreed
- Motion as amended For Agreed
Welsh Labour Debate: School support staff negotiating body
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- Motion Abstain Agreed